Making P100s great again - a build log, soundclips and a game!!

Alegree

I've been tasked by @impmann  to create a set of noiseless P90 sized pickups with unique and specific characteristics. I had had the idea lined up on the to do list, so it's been pushed up to the top along with my Chameleon design.

The requirements 
- bridge has to be tone and output similar to my Cirrostratus Telecaster bridge pickup
- neck has to be Jazzmaster like, with depth and complexity
- they have to be a soapbar P90 footprint
- they have to be noiseless

P100s were Gibsons take on a noiseless P90, and they were almost universally disliked, so this sounded like a great challenge for the self proclaimed quirkiest pickup builder!

So how am I going to approach this and make decent P100s? Gibson took a normal P90, then slapped on another coil to keep it quiet. My approach is to take a pickup that is brighter and cleaner than a P90, but dirties up to a P90 when the second coil is added. This requires thick wire, low tension and modest winds.

I only had enough bobbins to hand to finish the first prototype! It really is quite a unique beast, so here's the build -

Step 1 - Both pickups I'm basing these on have rod magnets, so that seemed like the logical place to start. I had to drill out the screw holes of the P90 bobbins to accept alnico rods. Step 2 - I had to clip away a little bit of the side of the bobbins to allow the output wires to run along without getting in the way of the cover. Step 3 - Both coils are wound on the two bobbins, and it's time to install the alnico rods! Really long bass rods are used here so that they reach the way through both bobbins. Pressed in with the chuck of a drill press. Step 4 - alnico rods are pressed in (later pushed in flush with the top) and the pickup is ready for the normal baseplate installation and wire hookup (albeit 4 in this case)

Step 5 - Pickup finished and ready to install in a test guitar to decide how to adapt the prototype to get the exact requirements. Some soundclips are recorded

I don't seem to be able to get sound clips onto here - so you'll need to go to my blog for a listen -  https://www.alegree.co.uk/blogs/news/a-good-p100

Pickups labelled A and B - can you work out which is which? (Noise added to noiseless pickup to stop cheating!)

Side note: as this was a first prototype of a design I'd never experimented with before I'm still a way off the mark, as you'll be able to tell - but I'm happy with the result nevertheless.

 

Funkfingers

Just tried the embedded Soundcloud sound clips on your blog. They would not play.

Alegree

Funkfingers said:

Just tried the embedded Soundcloud sound clips on your blog. They would not play.

Weird - they're working for me. I'm using chrome - maybe a browser issue?

Rox

Worked for me...

Funkfingers

The clips play fine on Soundcloud. My browser is Safari. Apple sent an update within the last twenty four hours. There could be a new compatibility issue somewhere.

I like the sound of the A Rock clip best.

WezV

Have you tried the Lindy Fralin approach?

Alegree

Funkfingers said:

The clips play fine on Soundcloud. My browser is Safari. Apple sent an update within the last twenty four hours. There could be a new compatibility issue somewhere.

I like the sound of the A Rock clip best.

But is it the Cirrostratus Tele bridge or the new design?

Funkfingers

Judging by the background hiss, it's Memorex.

Alegree

WezV said:

Have you tried the Lindy Fralin approach?

Nope. That's definitely an interesting design.
I haven't run into any problems with this one yet though, so I'll stick to it until I do!

WezV

Alegree said:

WezV said:

Have you tried the Lindy Fralin approach?

Nope. That's definitely an interesting design.
I haven't run into any problems with this one yet though, so I'll stick to it until I do!

yeah, not trying to divert you.  I think the Fralin approach gets some great reviews for noiseless P-90 tone, but that's not even what you are going for here

Alegree

WezV said:

Alegree said:

WezV said:

Have you tried the Lindy Fralin approach?

Nope. That's definitely an interesting design.
I haven't run into any problems with this one yet though, so I'll stick to it until I do!

yeah, not trying to divert you.  I think the Fralin approach gets some great reviews for noiseless P-90 tone, but that's not even what you are going for here

I'm considering holding onto the final coil design and loading it up with the P90 screw/bar mags assembly - in my head I reckon it should be close.

Apparently these Fralin ones are 43 AWG wire, which I wouldn't think naturally lends itself to an authentic P90 tone. I'm intrigued and will certainly be looking into these more!

Funkfingers

Alegree said:
Gibson took a normal P90, then slapped on another coil to keep it quiet. 

A slight oversimplification, methinks.

The coils of a Gibson P100 are connected in parallel. Thus, for any nominal D.C. resistance reading, the individual coils are of approximately double that reading. (Neck P100 = c. 7k overall = 14k per coil. Bridge P100 = c. 10k overall = 20k per coil.)

Do you have any opinions on the viability of these overwound Gibson single coils as a regular "hot" P90? (Obviously, there would be a certain amount of reconstructive surgery to get four functioning "P90s" out of two P100s.)

Alegree

Funkfingers said:

Alegree said:
Gibson took a normal P90, then slapped on another coil to keep it quiet. 

A slight oversimplification, methinks.

The coils of a Gibson P100 are connected in parallel. Thus, for any nominal D.C. resistance reading, the individual coils are of approximately double that reading. (Neck P100 = c. 7k overall = 14k per coil. Bridge P100 = c. 10k overall = 20k per coil.)

Do you have any opinions on the viability of these overwound Gibson single coils as a regular "hot" P90? (Obviously, there would be a certain amount of reconstructive surgery to get four functioning "P90s" out of two P100s.)

Interesting, I was basing that off the newer P100 designs, as opposed to the vintage stuff - which claim to use the same wire as a P90, as we all know, 42 PE. So they're definitely series. I guess I should have clarified that.

I can't see those hot P90s being much different to BK's offerings for humbucker winds in a P90 size, pretty close to their Pig 90 specs. Presumably they're also using 45 awg.

Funkfingers

Thank you for that. I rather like BKP Pig 90s.

I have a cunning plan, my lord.