Welcome to insomnia club... Anyone else a member?

Alnico

@Rickyd as soon as they offer me an appointment I will do.
I just managed to grab another 2 hours worth of nightmares so today is up to a total of 4 now.
Yeahhh,.....go me !

richardhomer

Some personal stuff that happened last weekend has ruined my sleep this week. Properly knackered and short tempered.... 

WezV

Second child has hit the teething stage. It's not terrible every night, but it's unpredictable.  I just can't get into any kind of routine and am going bed expecting shit sleep.  Then a bad day at work yesterday meant I couldn't nod off till 2am and was up again at 4. 

I need 8 hours

Tavernor

I'm a massive insomniac, had issues with anxiety and lying in bed not sleeping is when my brain can get carried away with itself. According distract myself with Netflix but obviously that isn't conducive to proper sleep. I'll go a skip a night's sleep pretty often so that I'm shattered enough to sleep for more than six hours. Not healthy for the head though, all a bit of a viscous cycle. Had various sleeping tablets from the doc but pretty sure I've built up a tolerance to them so they don't really help these days. Anyway, I've not actually chipped in anything useful here, just know you aren't alone! Let me know if you stumble upon anything that works other than rewatching the LOTR trilogy which, although I rate highly, has an extremely sedative effect on me.

Alnico

Tavernor said:

I'm a massive insomniac, had issues with anxiety and lying in bed not sleeping is when my brain can get carried away with itself. According distract myself with Netflix but obviously that isn't conducive to proper sleep. I'll go a skip a night's sleep pretty often so that I'm shattered enough to sleep for more than six hours. Not healthy for the head though, all a bit of a viscous cycle. Had various sleeping tablets from the doc but pretty sure I've built up a tolerance to them so they don't really help these days. Anyway, I've not actually chipped in anything useful here, just know you aren't alone! Let me know if you stumble upon anything that works other than rewatching the LOTR trilogy which, although I rate highly, has an extremely sedative effect on me.

I wouldn't say that's not useful.

I can relate to a lot of that.
Anxiety, skipping sleep to ensure tiredness, tablets and tolerance..........it all sounds shockingly familiar.

Thanks, this whole thread has made me feel at least not alone in this, which it's easy to give in to feeling.

Legionreturns

I'm glad I mentioned this. There's one thing I've worked out over the years, at least in my case; 

Anxiety and depression, and the many side effects of, are a lot easier to discuss openly with people who pose absolutely no threat to your everyday life. 

Like Alnico, I at least feel like I'm not alone now! 

Can I get a group hug? ...ok too far  

Tavernor

It's easy to explain but hard to understand if you've never experienced it I find. Always had it but had a pretty gnarly thing happen to me in my twenties, elements of PTSD from it still. You can imagine something like that happening to someone who can't sleep anyway is pretty unhelpful! 

Have you ever been in a fight...?

Alnico

Tavernor said:

It's easy to explain but hard to understand if you've never experienced it I find. Always had it but had a pretty gnarly thing happen to me in my twenties, elements of PTSD from it still. You can imagine something like that happening to someone who can't sleep anyway is pretty unhelpful! 

Have you ever been in a fight...?

I grew up in Liverpool in the 80's and 90's.
I think it's safe to assume I've seen my fair share of that, yes.

Tavernor

Heh, fair enough. Was meant to be a fight club joke! Rereading it, I don't really make that all too clear... Anyway, we mustn't talk about it.

Only been to Liverpool a couple of times, couple of occasions I've met Stanley though.

Alnico

Tavernor said:

Heh, fair enough. Was meant to be a fight club joke! Rereading it, I don't really make that all too clear... Anyway, we mustn't talk about it.

Only been to Liverpool a couple of times, couple of occasions I've met Stanley though.

Ah, yes......now I see it.

Sorry.

I really must rewatch that film now you've mentioned it.
I don't have a netflix subscription.
I don't dare !

Tavernor

I'm pretty sure be watched everything worth watching on it, decent content is added fairly frequently though. 100x better than Amazon Prime if you're thinking of getting one or the other. Got prime mainly for the Grand Tour as paid for a years worth.some good films but you have to wade through a lot of shit to find them. Interface is very poor too, especially though a fire stick. PS3 handles it better.

Alnico

Tavernor said:

I'm pretty sure be watched everything worth watching on it, decent content is added fairly frequently though. 100x better than Amazon Prime if you're thinking of getting one or the other. Got prime mainly for the Grand Tour as paid for a years worth.some good films but you have to wade through a lot of shit to find them. Interface is very poor too, especially though a fire stick. PS3 handles it better.

Yeah............I don't do Amazon anymore.

We don't have a TV anyway, it's all on the laptop but i clashed with Amazon last year and won't sub to them ever again.

Netflix I would but I don't want the zombie temptation.
I end up listening to music more often than anything.
That's an addiction I can handle better.

bodhi

I don't suffer from insomnia, but if I had the choice I'd stay up all night and sleep in the day.  Back in them good old days in the colony, I'd often go fishing all night long by myself and nap out all day long.  Loved it.

lasermonkey

I've been something of an insomniac for most of my life. After having had a few fits as a kid, I was taken to the hospital, wired up to an EEG and told that my brain is hyperactive. Basically, it doesn't know when to shut the f**k up and consequently, I find it almost impossible to relax. No matter how physically tired I am, if my brain is going ten to the dozen, I ain't sleeping.

 The icing on the cake is that six years ago I developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as a result of a bad tooth infection and the two combined took a hell of an impact on my health. Despite all manner of different sedatives (Amitriptyline, Temazepam, Zopiclone, etc, I was regularly going without any sleep for 72 hours at a time. Doctors like to give Amitriptyline to CFS sufferers, but although it makes you very drowsy (and helps with some of the other symptoms, such as pain), it can also prevent you from reaching deep sleep, making things much worse. I spent over a year feeling much like a zombie until ditching the drug.

 Weird things happen when you suffer from chronic sleep deprivation. I was used to the minor hallucinations (seeing a faint mist, the floor and walls gently rippling, seeing things and occasionally people in my peripheral vision) but the resulting memory loss and clumsiness was quite a shock. I distinctly remember walking from the doctors to the pharmacy and when I needed to cross the road, I'd forgotten which side of the road we drive! I had to watch the traffic on a distant road and extrapolate from that.

 Before the CFS thing, I'd been getting by on four-five hours sleep per day for around fifteen years. The trick was to not worry about it. I had to laugh at the recent Nytol advert and the "best case scenario" bit, as that was something I was familiar with until I learnt to deal with it.

Tonight was a perfect example of what can happen. By 8pm I felt shattered.  a sudden and overwhelming wave of tiredness swept over me. By 10pm I decided to go to bed. I struggled to nod off, couldn't get comfortable, but eventually dozed off, only to wake up at 11.45. I'm still exhausted, but I know from experience that it won't be worth bothering again until 4am, which is my average bed time these days. There's no point getting  wound up about it, as it only makes things worse.

I suppose that I'm lucky in that I work part time from home, so I can pick as and when I work, which is just as well, as by body clock is all over the bloody place!

I have found that getting out for walks in the countryside does wonders for me. When it's just me, the Mrs and nature, the "white noise" in my brain disappears and I can feel myself properly relax. It seems that I get better quality sleep afterwards. The effect is quite profound and does wonders for my well-being. I can heartily recommend giving it a go.

Placidcasual79

I am a poor sleeper - always have been. I struggle to get to sleep and struggle to stay asleep. I average between 3 and 6 hours sleep a night these days which is a lot better than it used to be. During difficult times in my life I sometimes couldn't sleep - which was horrible and used to leave me very drained. Through experience and practice my ability to deal with stress and anxiety has got better. 

Sometimes booze and drugs can appear helpful in terms of getting to sleep - but ultimately its false economy - it isn't restful, proper sleep. 

I would never say I am an insomniac. I have a good mate whose a diagnosed insomniac - its utterly horrific. 

Alnico

 @lasermonkey
There are so many similarities in your post how my days are, there's almost no point trying to quote and highlight the relevant parts, it seems like its all relevant at the moment especially the "Minor Hallucinations" of rippling walls and moving floors.......yeah and people in peripheral vision!
Before this thread, I'd questioned my sanity and so had my closest friends to a point. Now I'm starting to wonder if you might have suggested something that my doctor hasn't looked at yet......"CFS" ?

Thanks for posting this, not only for the peace of mind it's given me but also for a possible new direction to what the NHS still haven't diagnosed properly yet in me.
I feel less like a freak now because of this thread and it's surprising how many of us are suffering in similar ways. It's easy to think you're the only one or one of only a very few when this is happening.

I managed 4 hours just now which is the longer sleep for me but again, the dreams are just off the scale and quite scary and it took the usual 10 minutes waking up to work out what was reality and what wasn't.
I really hate that part.

REALLY hate it.

I'm starting to wonder how much of a friend or an enemy Coffee is.

I drink it when I wake up and it makes my tired brain race and in some ways feel worse but it gets me out of that zombie state where I don't know what's going on.
I drink a few litres of water a day as well and I eat fairly normally, not completely junk food but not Jamie-Style fresh either.

Does anyone else have stuff they wonder about in their diet?

DrCornelius

Any of you chaps tried Mindfulness at bedtime ? Usually works for me if I'm not sleeping because of things on my mind. There's lots of stuff about it on YouTube and the web generally

Teyeplayer

Alnico said:

I'm starting to wonder how much of a friend or an enemy Coffee is.

This. 

My sleep seems to be similiar to @lasermonkey with a very over active brain, takes me hours to get to sleep. My insomnia though has been much better recently and I attribute a lot of it to cutting out caffeine with the exception of one cup in the morning. I also know if I drink alcohol it's an instant bad nights sleep. So much as I do love a glass of wine, I have to be honest with myself and accept that is the cost, when I wake up in the night I know why.

As has been said by a few folk here, I've also stopped worrying about it when an insomnia bout happens, which has had a significant impact on my peace of mind and that has a clear knock on in hastening the end of the cycle. 

lasermonkey

The thing with CFS is that it isn't a diagnosis. It's a catch-all term for one of many different ailments which could be ME, Fibromyalgia, thyroid problems, parathyroid problems, autoimmune issues, vitamin deficiency or God knows what. There are tests to determine whether it is ME, but you try getting your doctor to do them!  Initially, I had an MRI scan to rule out Multiple Sclerosis or brain tumour, plus a nerve conduction test, but I have to say that I've had no luck trying to get my GPs (and that's after a change of surgery) to do anything else and on my most recent visit a couple of weeks ago, I was basically told "sorry mate, you're on your own".

The Mrs and I have done a *lot* of reading on the subject, and we think that ME is the most likely culprit, mainly down to the symptom list and the fact that it happens after a major infection.
The symptom list is extensive, and while not everyone with ME has all of them, there is a minimum number (which I forget) that you need to have to be considered a sufferer. These include chronic tiredness (obvs!), chronic pain, an unexplained cough that won't go away, memory loss, disphasia (using the wrong word. For instance, I might want to say, "on purpose", but what comes out is "on purple", or I'll get stuck halfway through a sentence because I can't remember the word I need) clumsiness (this one really upsets me, as I'm not naturally clumsy, and it has certainly affected my guitar playing), memory loss/confusion/concentration problems, sore throat, sleep disturbance, upset stomach, intolerance to excersise, temperature control problems.

I do have one major symptom that isn't covered, although there is anecdotal evidence that some ME sufferers do exhibit this, and that's chronic pins and needles. My pins and needles came on very suddenly and never went away. Most of the time I can tune it out, but if I'm particularly tired or stressed, it ramps up. It's always in my feet, lower legs and hands, but often appears around my face, the top of my head and my eyeballs. I'm guessing that most of you have never had pins and needles in your eyeballs. It's not particularly pleasant!  The pins and needles is one of the things that stops me from getting comfortable when I'm trying to sleep, and the amitriptyline did help to alleviate it, along with the pain. For many people, amitriptyline works very well, but it and I did not get on one bit!

 If you think that you may have CFS it might be worth discussing it with your doctor, but be prepared for a long and frustrating slog. Some people are lucky and have doctor that knows a fair bit on the subject. These people tend to recover fairly quickly. My wife's old boss was stricken with it and was bed-ridden for the best part of a year, but thanks to her doctor, she made a full recovery. I'm now six years down the line and any progress I've made has been entirely down to my own efforts. I had to give up my job as a laser engineer as the chronic tiredness, memory and concentration problems made it dangerous for me to be around lasers and their 2kJ/S power supplies (touch the wrong bit and you're dead) and after several mishaps and close calls, coupled with a boss that thought that increasingly punitive action would get me into work more often (it just made me more stressed and therefore more ill), I had to quit.

 The doctor will almost certainly want to get you on amitriptyline. I started out on 5mg (and ended up on 100mg, but that's another story) and the side effects I had should have been a warning for me to stop immediately (shaking hands, uncontrollably shaky eyeballs, sense of detachment from reality) but as I mentioned, it does seem to help with most people. It's actually an antidepressant, but in small doses, it can help alleviate some of the symptoms and it does make you drowsy. It has a half-life of around 12 hours, and you shouldn't be in control of any vehicle whilst it has any effect on you. Just take my word on it! You'll have to give up alcohol entirely, as its incredibly dangerous to mix with amitriptyline.

You may also be offered cognitive behavioural therapy, which I declined as I've already worked out how I best deal with CFS on a day to day basis. Some people do benefit from it though, and it may well work for you.

 While I'm nowhere near having a "normal" life, I have worked out what helps me and what doesn't, and that includes:
avoid caffeine from noon onwards.
avoid any unnecessary exertion or stress.
make sure you're getting all your vitamins and eat healthily.
make sure you're able to relax and de-stress.
get out into the countryside for a nice walk and some fresh air, though be aware that you may well be too knackered the day after to be of any use.
dont worry if you can't sleep. It will come, eventually. If I  can't sleep,  I don't lie in bed stressing about it. I'll get up and occupy my mind with something. I've even written songs whilst in that weird, half awake, half asleep state!
try to stay upbeat. While I'm something of a natural pessimist, I've found it important to not let things get me down. I keep reminding myself that whilst it's rather debilitating, it's not life-threatening and things could be *much* worse. I concentrate on the things I can do, not the things I can't. Make time to things you enjoy. Anything that de-stresses you is a good thing.

Jalapeno

I can't recommend reading highly enough to unclog the brain and to suppress the manic racing brain that keeps me awake, a good dull biography will always hit the spot.