Clarky and the Helix

guitarfishbay

I'm a bit confused as to how Clarky is running out of DSP because my impression was the Helix could do more in a patch than the Axe FX 2, however I don't do any of the complex morphing stuff Clarky does.  I also haven't ever hit the DSP limit on the Axe FX - I've run out of switches on my MIDI controller way before then.

guitarfishbay

@Drew_TNBD your photo isn't working

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

@Drew_TNBD your photo isn't working

Working here ya bitch!! Hmmm... Ever since Dropbox changed their previewing mechanisms, the share links regularly break. But only on this forum it seems. ffs. Fuck it... Imgur time...

robinbowes

OK, I'll be the one to ask: what is morphing?

hubobulous

Jonathanthomas83

@robinbowes within the same preset, using an expression pedal to blend from one set of parameters to another.

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

Clarky said:

sounds hi-gain, feels mid-gain

You know what.... that's almost the perfect way to describe how I feel about all modellers - Axe, Kemper, Helix .... they all sound great, but they feel like I'm playing through a small Vox Pathfinder amp!!

My rig is basically Diezel D-Moll + Helix in 4-cable-method. I'm loving the tones right now!!!

so with 4CM, you're avoiding the modelling and just using the fx [which are rather nice] and routing [which is pretty flexible]

Clarky

fretmeister said:

The mid gain / high gain thing is interesting.

I'm a complete compression junkie so I've got them on everything so I dont have that issue. But then again I'm not pushing the DSP limits either.

I'm thinking that I'll have to do the same…
the worry though is comp + dirt = noise = harder input gate settings

Clarky

fretmeister said:

Clarky - have you mucked about with the SAG control on the amps?

They can tighten things up quite a bit in high gain use

not yet… I'll put it on the to-do list..

Clarky

robinbowes said:

OK, I'll be the one to ask: what is morphing?

changing one tone into another by assigning various block parameters to controllers
not to be confused with cross-fading two different tones <- which sounds crap

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

I'm a bit confused as to how Clarky is running out of DSP because my impression was the Helix could do more in a patch than the Axe FX 2, however I don't do any of the complex morphing stuff Clarky does.  I also haven't ever hit the DSP limit on the Axe FX - I've run out of switches on my MIDI controller way before then.

from what I've found, the Helix don't get remotely close to the Axe-FX..
the Axe-FX seems to me to be considerably more powerful
also, the Helix chains have far fewer slots than the Axe-FX grid

guitarfishbay

Well in that case I don't know where I got my info from.

Maybe it came from discussion about block limits - on the Axe FX there are limits on the amount of identical block types in the same patch, but with XY most people seem to get on ok in terms of patches and switching.  I know Drew found it restrictive since he tends to go for a lot of delays, and the Helix (I think) lets you run as many as the DSP will allow.

It is interesting to hear you've hit the DSP limit on the Helix.  I'm assuming it doesn't do X/Y switching - so in reality you're running 3 amps in the patch at all times, rather than 2 on the Fractal (with the third being on X/Y).  I wonder if it's something that can or will be implemented in future Helix firmware upgrades

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Clarky said:

sounds hi-gain, feels mid-gain

You know what.... that's almost the perfect way to describe how I feel about all modellers - Axe, Kemper, Helix .... they all sound great, but they feel like I'm playing through a small Vox Pathfinder amp!!

My rig is basically Diezel D-Moll + Helix in 4-cable-method. I'm loving the tones right now!!!

so with 4CM, you're avoiding the modelling and just using the fx [which are rather nice] and routing [which is pretty flexible]

Yeah for live and practice. For home stuff I use the modelling.

guitarfishbay said:

Well in that case I don't know where I got my info from.

Maybe it came from discussion about block limits - on the Axe FX there are limits on the amount of identical block types in the same patch, but with XY most people seem to get on ok in terms of patches and switching.  I know Drew found it restrictive since he tends to go for a lot of delays, and the Helix (I think) lets you run as many as the DSP will allow.

Yeah. It's just a different approach really. I've got 4 delays in my main patch, two of which are on a parallel path which I bring in with an expression pedal and they then feed into the front of the other two. Basically I've got a 'screaming delay feedback' type of thing going on.

You can hear it in action at 2:35 in this video:
https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/10155392152951737/

Drew_TNBD

And you know what else, I can't get that tone from any other delay pedal. I did try!! Nemesis doesn't quite do it as good, nor does the DD-500. Basically it requires a combination of reverse delay, vintage delay, adriatic analog delay, and regular high quality digital delay - plus reverb.

You can't get it from a single pedal.

Sorry for the slight hijack Clarky!!

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

Well in that case I don't know where I got my info from.

Maybe it came from discussion about block limits - on the Axe FX there are limits on the amount of identical block types in the same patch, but with XY most people seem to get on ok in terms of patches and switching.  I know Drew found it restrictive since he tends to go for a lot of delays, and the Helix (I think) lets you run as many as the DSP will allow.

It is interesting to hear you've hit the DSP limit on the Helix.  I'm assuming it doesn't do X/Y switching - so in reality you're running 3 amps in the patch at all times, rather than 2 on the Fractal (with the third being on X/Y).  I wonder if it's something that can or will be implemented in future Helix firmware upgrades

in the Axe there are 2 blocks of each type and for a few there are 4 blocks
they're numbered.. AMP1, CAB2, GEQ4, PHA2, VOL3 etc
so the limit is not a DSP thing, it's a limitation of what's available to choose from..
that said… most block types support X/Y so you have double availability on the grid
from what is available you can keep loading until you see CPU hit about 90%
after 90% you may start getting performance issues..
that said.. you can make huge presets with all kinds of complex cabling around the grid

iirc, Drew's issue with the Axe was the amp modelling more than anything else
seems to me that he has this issue with all modellers.. which is why he uses real amps and 4CM

you're right, I'm using 3 individual amps in the Helix whereas in the Axe I run 2 with one of them X/Y

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

iirc, Drew's issue with the Axe was the amp modelling more than anything else
seems to me that he has this issue with all modellers.. which is why he uses real amps and 4CM

Yup. If Fractal did an Axe FX II in a footpedal unit that wasn't crippled, I'd grab one.

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

Yeah. It's just a different approach really. I've got 4 delays in my main patch, two of which are on a parallel path which I bring in with an expression pedal and they then feed into the front of the other two. Basically I've got a 'screaming delay feedback' type of thing going on.

You can hear it in action at 2:35 in this video:
https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/10155392152951737/

so we both know that the Axe won't load 4 individual delays..
but you can run 2 with X/Y
and if you need loads of delays you can load the 10-tap
but… you know all this already.. lol..

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

And you know what else, I can't get that tone from any other delay pedal. I did try!! Nemesis doesn't quite do it as good, nor does the DD-500. Basically it requires a combination of reverse delay, vintage delay, adriatic analog delay, and regular high quality digital delay - plus reverb.

You can't get it from a single pedal.

Sorry for the slight hijack Clarky!!

noooo prob… all valuable insights..

Clarky

Clarky said:

Cabicular said:

Clarky said:

Cabicular said:

Clarky said:

so… I'm now doing my tone morphing stuff..
dry riff morphs to clean ambient
solo morphs to clean but remains ambient
clean does no morphing at all

I reckon I'll struggle to do my next preset..
riff to clean
solo to clean
clean to pad
riff to pad

Are you going to set them on parallel paths and then put a gain block at the front of each?
then simultaneously increase and decrease the gain on the pedal sweep?
there are a few templates for that kind of thing that are worth looking at

shame I can't post a pic cos the photo bucket bstrds..

amp1: path 1a
amp2: path 1b

path1 links to path2

amp3: path 2a

There are a few things you can play with here
the gain blocks in front of each amp to turn it up and down
the amp controls themselves (decrease the gain while increasing the master or channel volumes) the mix on a split block
There should be enough in all that to waste a few hours of your time

that's exactly what I've done - a copy of something I do in the Axe-FX
also a pan block after amp1 because:
riff: panned left to sound in conjunction with amp2: panned right
solo: amp1 pans center

didn't need to do this..
I used snapshot to control the panning and levels of paths 1a and 1b and so managed to do away with 3 vol/pan blocks

guitarfishbay

Sounds like you're making progress 

Are you going to be trying the Helix through your live cab set up?

That'd be an interesting comparison for sure, especially with regards to feel