changing from 10's-9's

mike_l

When changing string gauge from 10's - 9's is it common that the truss rod needs a tweak?

I'm asking as the ESP has started to rattle a little since I've changed down and lowered the action. I've done the same on my Jackson, Ibanez and Strat and none of them needed a tweak.

octatonic

Yes, very common.

Truss rods generally need to be adjusted seasonally anyway.

Phil_aka_Pip

but ... why?? I changed from 9s to 10s and haven't regretted it!

mike_l

The ESP has been very stable, and never needs tweaking. It's never needed a tweak in the 15 years I've had it.....

drwiddly

Some guitars do. I finally got hold of a Blade RH-4 and changed from 10's to 9's. Lots of buzz and rattle so I slackened the truss rod by slightly less than half a turn to increase the relief. Plays great now with no buzzes or rattles at all.

I've done the same string change on other guitars and had no problems but usually find a small tweak of the truss rod improves things.

Now I've got my new PC I must do a NGD for the Blade, it's a cracker!

mike_l

Phil_aka_Pip said:

but ... why?? I changed from 9s to 10s and haven't regretted it!

I've had broken bones in both hands and fingers. It's a little kinder to use lighter strings. I'm not going down to 8's though....

 

And thanks for the input guys.

Phil_aka_Pip

@mike_l my condolences. maybe with a little gentle exercise over time you might get back to 10s. FWIW James Taylor broke both hands in a motorcycle accident around 1970 and although we can say he might have been better off if it hadn't happened, it doesn't appear to have done him any harm in the long term 

Fazer

you have a floyd rose trem too?

usedtobe

Get some 11's on, soft lad!

octatonic

mike_l said:

The ESP has been very stable, and never needs tweaking. It's never needed a tweak in the 15 years I've had it.....

Sorry Mike but unless this is a magic guitar that somehow breaks the laws of physics then this simply won't be the case.

You might not see the need to make adjustments, but guitars move- they HAVE to.

Wood moves all the time, even when it is finished.

Finish doesn't stop the movement, it just slows it down- a bit.

It isn't a matter of being stable- if you haven't had it setup or adjusted in 15 years then maybe you aren't picky about playability (this is not a slight, plenty of people aren't) but trust me, it is absolutely moving around all the time.

Even the most stable, quarter-sawn wood will move.

streethawk

mike_l said:

When changing string gauge from 10's - 9's is it common that the truss rod needs a tweak?

I'm asking as the ESP has started to rattle a little since I've changed down and lowered the action. I've done the same on my Jackson, Ibanez and Strat and none of them needed a tweak.

You changed the action, this seems to have been overlooked. Or has it been overlooked - IDK. 

When you say rattle, do you mean string rattle/buzz?

mike_l

octatonic said:

mike_l said:

The ESP has been very stable, and never needs tweaking. It's never needed a tweak in the 15 years I've had it.....

Sorry Mike but unless this is a magic guitar that somehow breaks the laws of physics then this simply won't be the case.

You might not see the need to make adjustments, but guitars move- they HAVE to.

Wood moves all the time, even when it is finished.

Finish doesn't stop the movement, it just slows it down- a bit.

It isn't a matter of being stable- if you haven't had it setup or adjusted in 15 years then maybe you aren't picky about playability (this is not a slight, plenty of people aren't) but trust me, it is absolutely moving around all the time.

Even the most stable, quarter-sawn wood will move.

I understand all that, just a little miffed that I've changed down on 3 others and not needed to adjust the truss rod.

=Edit - I'm pretty picky on playability, neck and fingerboard profiles too. So picky that I don't like having anything that isn't either a Floyd or 2-post Fender bridge under my picking hand. Also I don't like having less than 22 frets, not for going up high a lot, just feels wrong to me.

streethawk said:

mike_l said:

When changing string gauge from 10's - 9's is it common that the truss rod needs a tweak?

I'm asking as the ESP has started to rattle a little since I've changed down and lowered the action. I've done the same on my Jackson, Ibanez and Strat and none of them needed a tweak.

You changed the action, this seems to have been overlooked. Or has it been overlooked - IDK. 

When you say rattle, do you mean string rattle/buzz?

 

Nope, I've not overlooked it, I did exactly as I did with the other guitars, and I've not had any rattle on them. I've adjusted the spring tension on the Floyds too, and not had any issues on the others.

 

Yes, rattle is string rattle/buzz. It's really fucking annoying. I'll give the TR a tweak on the weekend.

viz

Truss rods vary in thickness and necks in strength. I know my Callaghan guitar has a 7mm rod and quite a thick neck, and it doesn't seem to mind what strings go on it - though I don't mind my action being quite high anyway - whereas the Jem goes bananas even when you change the strings.

p90fool

octatonic said:Sorry Mike but unless this is a magic guitar that somehow breaks the laws of physics then this simply won't be the case.

You might not see the need to make adjustments, but guitars move- they HAVE to.

I have to disagree, there are some very stable necks out there. I tweak most of mine a couple of times a year, but I have an '81 Tele I bought new that I've never adjusted. It's lived at a dozen different addresses in three different countries, and I've done two 80-date European tours with it.

It plays as well as all my others, though the frets are a little low now.
I'm very picky too, a lot of people who try my guitars ask me to set theirs up too, they like them so much.

ThePrettyDamned

mike_l;167218" said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

but ... why?? I changed from 9s to 10s and haven't regretted it!





I've had broken bones in both hands and fingers. It's a little kinder to use lighter strings. I'm not going down to 8's though.... And thanks for the input guys.

8s are an experience. I prefer 8s to 9s. But I prefer 10-52 as my go to D-standard gauge. For standard, I like regular 11s on non metal stuff and 10s on my usual. Yeah, I know...

mike_l

viz said:

Truss rods vary in thickness and necks in strength. I know my Callaghan guitar has a 7mm rod and quite a thick neck, and it doesn't seem to mind what strings go on it - though I don't mind my action being quite high anyway - whereas the Jem goes bananas even when you change the strings.

T'is indeed a gorgeous guitar, The Callaghan. I've never had a guitar that went bananas when I've changed the strings, I'm imagining it'd piss me right off.

mike_l

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@mike_l my condolences. maybe with a little gentle exercise over time you might get back to 10s. FWIW James Taylor broke both hands in a motorcycle accident around 1970 and although we can say he might have been better off if it hadn't happened, it doesn't appear to have done him any harm in the long term 

I'm not worried about it, but using 10's was starting to hurt my poor likkle pinkies :-?, in both picking and fretting hands. It seemed sensible (yeah I know, from me right >-) to change down to 9's. I'm also going to re-assess my playing, and do more practice to get more stamina and strength in them. I've started putting in a couple of hours a night, to work on my technique and stamina. Hopefully next time I'm allowed into public I'll be a better guitarererist.

octatonic

p90fool said:

octatonic said:Sorry Mike but unless this is a magic guitar that somehow breaks the laws of physics then this simply won't be the case.

You might not see the need to make adjustments, but guitars move- they HAVE to.

I have to disagree, there are some very stable necks out there. I tweak most of mine a couple of times a year, but I have an '81 Tele I bought new that I've never adjusted. It's lived at a dozen different addresses in three different countries, and I've done two 80-date European tours with it.

It plays as well as all my others, though the frets are a little low now.
I'm very picky too, a lot of people who try my guitars ask me to set theirs up too, they like them so much.

I'm afraid science is indisputable.

This is a very well known and well researched topic.

There is a good book on wood technology that I can recommend called Understanding Wood by R.Bruce Hoadley.

I've done experiments under lab conditions examining the movement of wood with the change of humidity as part of the lutherie degree (it is a B.Sc).

I can share the results of those experiments if you like- but it will take a bit of time to write out.

I'm afraid that 'my guitar is stable and doesn't need setting up' type of anecdotal evidence doesn't really stand up against the decades of research and writing on this topic.

Certainly different pieces of wood have different amounts of movement, some necks are demonstrably more stable than others but there is no neck that is made of wood that doesn't change.

This is one of the reasons though that we use quarter sawn wood- also to minimise shrinking.

mike_l

octatonic said:

 

I'm afraid that 'my guitar is stable and doesn't need setting up' type of anecdotal evidence doesn't really stand up against the decades of research and writing on this topic.

Certainly different pieces of wood have different amounts of movement, some necks are demonstrably more stable than others but there is no neck that is made of wood that doesn't change.

This is one of the reasons though that we use quarter sawn wood- also to minimise shrinking.

In all seriousness, and due respect, the guitar neck has never needed tweaking, and the action has remained constant. I am NOT debating the research, or anyone else's findings, on this particular guitar the truss rod has never needed a tweak. Likewise my Jackson did at one time need quite a lot of tweaking, but has settled and hasn't had a TR adjustment in around 4 years.

I shall give the ESP a little adjustment this weekend and see how I get on.

FWIW, I have set-up all my own guitars, and am competent in doing this. I've never had one as rattly as this though.....

57Deluxe

I have 9s on my Gibson 335 and it plays 'like butter'! I wanted to get the neck worn-in from when new and at the time had two cysts come up on my fretting hand palm tendons exacerbated by playing a tele with 11s. It worked! Still have the 9s on even though I usually go for 10s Super Slinkys. Yes had to do a minor tweak after first few weeks but not since.

It rings nicely - plenty of resonance, is bright and bell like and punchy loud still. You do have to tune more often though. No Buzzing either.

The cysts have gone largely to - but as soon as that pain starts to show - I lay off the heavy bending!

Dave_Mc

Wow I didn't realise using heavy strings could make weird black Xes appear on your hands. Good job I use fairly light strings.





Seriously, though, that sucks about the cysts. I don't like using too heavy strings, never realised they could do that to you, though.