P90s in a MiM Strat

tralfamadan

Hello,

First proper post here we go...

I’ve got a Mexican Standard Stratocaster that I’ve had for about 17 years. I haven’t played it for about 7 of those. I want to put some P90s in it. I would really welcome some advice and feedback on this plan.

Currently it has some Fat ‘50s in it which I don’t care for. Basically - I don’t like how Strats sound; but I like how they play and I love P90s.

The tone I would hope to get somewhere near is the Gibson SG with P90s. Obviously I won’t get it exactly, but something along those lines is what I’m aiming towards.

1. Is this a terrible idea?
2. I believe the Wood in the MIMs was changed mid 00’s. Mine was bought new in 2000-2002 but I don’t know if its Poplar or Alder. Is there any way to tell? Will it make much difference to the tone?
3. I’m not sure what to do about the Pickguard. I will buy a new one regardless, but is there anywhere that sells something compatible in the UK pre-cut, or am I gonna have to cut it myself?
4. I am thinking Neck-Mid-Bridge : P90 – Fat50 – P90 – for no other reason than I can squeeze the ’50 in the middle. Waste of time? Should I just stick to the P90s?
5. Do P90s need to screw into the body of a Strat or do they need to be fixed to the Pickguard?
   
6. Am I likely to get anywhere near the tone of the Gibsons with P90s? If not, I might just buy one instead  
   

CasperCaster

I won't take on all your questions, but I have a couple of thoughts. 

Firstly, a Strat will take up to three P90's if they are body mounted. I tried this virtually using the custom pickguard builder at Axesrus here:

http://www.axesrus.co.uk/Custom-Pickguard-Builder-for-Fender-Stratocaster-p/arucuststratplatebuild.htm

Just take a deep breath before you look at the cost! Many places sell blank pickguards so if you have access to a router you can knock something similar up yourself, especially if you don't mind a Gibson style toggle rather than a Fender style lever switch, which is hard to rout for. Off the top of my head I don't know how wide a P90 is compared to a Strat pickup with mounting screws - if the P90 is bigger then it will be possible to modify a stock pickguard as you please, which may be another option. There are also humbucker sized P90 pickups and many replacement pickguards routed for humbuckers, so another option there. Also, depending how your body is routed, you may have routing to do to the body, so it's a great skill to acquire if you possibly can.

Whether you do or don't keep a middle pickup might best be decided by pragmatism. If you make a pickguard from a blank then routing for a lever switch is much harder than drilling for a toggle switch. I also wouldn't like to predict how a Fat 50 would match with a P90 - I think a hotter middle pickup works better, but that's just my opinion - it all depends what you are trying to achieve with the middle pickup. Also,how would you wire it? With a standard 5-way you won't get bridge and neck P90 together, which is a big omission in my opinion, so I think you just need to clarify why you want a middle pickup and how much wiring you are happy to do, and how much you want to spend or how much you are prepared to do it yourself.

As for the sound, well it won't sound exactly like a great P90 equipped SG, but that doesn't mean it will sound bad. But a Fender guitar, with a bolt-on neck, 25.5" scale and different materials just can't sound  like a Gibson. Depending on your view point a P90 sound with some extra Fender snap, or a Strat with some extra P90 grunt is pretty desirable. I made similar mods to a Tele and I've used it a great deal over the last 15 years or so. I seem to remember that FretKing made some Strat style guitars with a bridge P90 pickup - if you aren't confident about the merits of your proposal then it might be worth trying one before committing time and money to your own project.

Funkfingers

1. No but ...

The average Fender MIM Stratocaster body is routed to accept HSS pickups. Thus, the bridge position pickup cavity will need extending lengthways. The neck position cavity will need extending length and widthways.

2. Inspect the unpainted wood in the neck pocket. Alder may have brown linear flecks in it. Poplar is dull-looking, sometimes with random greyish areas. If you do not wish to remove the neck, try tap testing the body. Poplar tends to be dull.

3. You can mail order a bespoke pickguard.

4. No reason whatsoever. The P90s will probably overpower the Fender pickup when combined but that does not mean that you should not try it.

5. "Soapbar" P90s are screwed directly to the body. Sometimes, using a simple wood screw. Sometimes, with a threaded metal insert mounted in the body timber. Sometimes, using a metal plate with the appropriate holes in it.

6. Not a hope. The timber types, the hardware and the scale length all contribute to the characteristic sound. 


Some of this board's pickup builders offer P90-sound-in-a-Fender-format designs. It might be worth checking some of their web sites for more information.

In my opinion, it would be wiser to remove the existing Fender scratchplate and electronics assembly entirely. Keep it original in case you ever decide to reinstate it prior to selling the guitar. Assemble an entirely new pickguard, pickup and controls from scratch. It will actually be less work.

Headphones

I have an 03 US Strat that I've fitted with HB sized P90s.  This is far easier to do than the extra width of real '90s and the guards are off the shelf.

With original ones the neck pup barely stays inside the pickguard line and the bridge one is parlously close to the volume pot (not to mention the wood removal needed to fit - even if it is swimming pool routed).

Of course, it has a sound all of it's own, a really fat strat with strong junior leanings is the way I'd sum it up, but beauty is in the ear of the beholder - and the various HB P90s sound different too, so if you don't like it swap - that's the beauty of Strats!

paulnb57

Creamery pickups make a Single coil size P90, which drops straight into a Strat scratchplate I have 3 Strat ones and two Tele ones, so its fair to say I like them, how they sound compated to a pukka P90? No idea! But they are fatter and growlier than standard single coil......

Chalky

Buy a secondhand Squier Custom Tele 2x P90 version for £150-200 and see if you like the sound.  It is very very close to your spec.

olafgarten

I have a Triple P90 Strat and it sounds great, like a normal strat but a lot fatter. 

Funkfingers

Chalky said:

Buy a secondhand Squier Custom Tele 2x P90 version for £150-200 and see if you like the sound.  It is very very close to your spec.

I just so happen to have one of these in the tasteful black. It is upgraded with GraphTech String Saver saddles.

tralfamadan

Thanks for the feedback, all. Much appreciated.

I had mistakenly thought that the swimming pool routes on a MiM body would be big enough to house a Soapbar which would've made the process somewhat easier! I think I'll take your advice and find a Tele (or any Fender) with P90s in to get a better idea of the sound i'd get. 

Funkfingers

tralfamadan said:

I had mistakenly thought that the swimming pool routes on a MiM body would be big enough to house Soapbar P90s. 

Next string change, take a look under the pickguard to see how your particular guitar is routed.

Headphones said:

HB sized P90s. 

For instance, Seymour Duncan P-Rails - with or without a Rails replacement pickup for Stratocaster in the middle.

Alegree

P90s in a standard Strat is a past challenge of mine.
https://www.alegree.co.uk/collections/stratocaster-single-coil-pickups/products/sub-zero-p90-toned-stratocaster-single-coils

Headphones

HB sized P90s (and indeed standard gibbo sized HBs) will fit in most modern Stats, as the neck and bridge routes are sized for just this - it's only the "vintage correct" variety that you'd need to get the gouges/route out for.

PhilKing

McNelly make the S-Bar, which is the Strat version of their T-Bar Tele P-90.  I didn't see them on the web site, but I have a pair that Tim made me to go with a T-Bar bridge on a Stratele, and they sound great.  They are drop in replacements for Strat pickups.

EricTheWeary

Debbie Davies used strats with a P90 at the bridge ( long time before Fretking went for it). She was Albert Collins back up guitarist for a while and , IIRC, the P90 was to get his kind of bright-fat Tele sound for her solo stuff. Fenders fitted with P90s have tended to have other Gibsonish elements as well like mahogany bodies, so I'm not convinced it's quite a half way house. Although somebody, somewhere will have done it. 

Funkfingers

Headphones said:

the neck pup barely stays inside the pickguard line and the bridge one is parlously close to the volume pot (not to mention the wood removal needed to fit - even if it is swimming pool routed).

Like this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warmoth-P90-Strat-Scratchplate-/222625936537?hash=item33d58a3499:g:WEUAAOSwOMdZS~n1