Tele people - advice please + NGD pics

thebreeze

I'm pretty much a Strat man.  But the other day, rather impulsively, I bought a Tele (a CS 1962).  I've always loved the idea and looks of Teles so I thought I'd give it another go (I've got to admit I was swayed by the looks of this thing).  Anyway, I don't know much about them so a simple question if I may?  When I put it in the middle position the sound is very nasally and "honky", kind of plinky....and the volume level dips a bit.  Neck position and bridge position are as I would have expected and normally powerful.  Is this correct and how it's meant to be?  Or is there something going on with the wiring?  A while ago I had a Nocaster which had a 4-way selector but each of the positions gave different but "expected" tones and in none of them did the volume dip.  The pickups in the '62 are '63 Tele in the neck and Texas Special in the bridge.

Tbh I don't mind it too much as it's not a tone I've got anywhere else and it doesn't sound too bad but I'm just curious.

Many thanks.

Alegree

Possibly out of phase.
Try switching hot/ground from the neck pickup.

JDE

I've never had an unnatural volume drop in the middle position on a Tele before. Is the middle position on your guitar hum cancelling?

richardhomer

Sounds like it's out of phase to me too. I've owned about 5 Teles and never had a volume drop in the middle position.

Funkfingers

+1 for phase reversal.

The Fender neck/Rhythm position pickup should have two conductor wires. In order to to reverse its phase, you need to break the existing connection between the soldering eyelet for the black (coil start) conductor and a tab on the metal cover of the pickup. 

The cheapskate option is to transfer the cover ground connection across to the white (coil end) conductor soldering eyelet. The more useful option is to add a separate ground wire for the metal pickup cover. This way, you can make phase reversal switchable or give yourself the option of series interconnection of the two pickups.

Another option is to ditch the Texas Special Tele Lead pickup for something of the same phase as the stock neck/Rhythm pickup.

DulcetJones

Huh.   My Squier Tele does that but I use it as a way to boost for solos.    Sometimes it's all I need.

OilCityPickups

You have out of phase pickups ... easiest to swap the phase of the neck, but you must cut the pickup cover cover earth link wire ( the short link under the pickup) before swapping earth and hot over.

thebreeze

Cool - thank you for all the replies.  Should I get a soldering iron then?  Is this something I can/should do myself?  I've not done anything like that before...

@Funkfingers are there only certain bridge pickups that will combine with this neck pickup then?  How do you know/tell which ones will work?

OilCityPickups

thebreeze said:

Cool - thank you for all the replies.  Should I get a soldering iron then?  Is this something I can/should do myself?  I've not done anything like that before...

@Funkfingers are there only certain bridge pickups that will combine with this neck pickup then?  How do you know/tell which ones will work?

The phase of various pickup brands vary ... if you intend to swap pickups regularly I'd invest in a small compass and a multimeter ... with those you can test magnetic and electrical phase.

Alegree

thebreeze said:

Cool - thank you for all the replies.  Should I get a soldering iron then?  Is this something I can/should do myself?  I've not done anything like that before...

@Funkfingers are there only certain bridge pickups that will combine with this neck pickup then?  How do you know/tell which ones will work?




There's only certain ones that will be hum cancelling in the middle position (check if the tops stick together with magnetism).

But you can match any two you want just by swapping over the neck pickup's wires if it's out of phase in the middle position. Snipping the neck cover wire isn't necessary, but it cuts down a little on noise.

Funkfingers

thebreeze said:

Should I get a soldering iron? Is this something I can/should do myself? I've not done anything like that before.

Yes. Yes. Uh-oh.

If you are not confident and/or experienced in handling guitar pickups, it is probably advisable to turn the work over to a professional guitar technician.

Various contributors have suggested altering the neck/Rhythm pickup for the simple reason that it is easier to access than the bridge/Treble pickup. 

thebreeze said:

@Funkfingers are there only certain bridge pickups that will combine with this neck pickup?

If I were being pedantic (Wot? Moi?), I would argue that, on a Fender Custom Shop guitar, the Fender Custom Shop pickup is original and the retro-fitted Texas Special is an interloper. There is an argument for leaving the Fender C.S. pickup alone and making all changes to the non-original pickup (or replacing it).

The word "combine" also carries the secondary sense of appropriate sonic tastes. Those are entirely subjective.

thebreeze said:

How do you know/tell which ones will work?

Once upon a time, before an outside contractor ****ed it completely, the Seymour Duncan website published magnetic polarity and coil winding direction information for its Antiquity replacement pickup range. 

Conventionally, Fender single coils send the start of the coil as ground (black conductor) and the finish as hot (white conductor). 

If you know both coil direction and magnetic polarity, you can create pairs that will operate together in the correct phase relationship - either with (partial) hum-cancellation or as Nature Leo intended. 

thebreeze

Funkfingers said:

thebreeze said:

@Funkfingers are there only certain bridge pickups that will combine with this neck pickup?

If I were being pedantic (Wot? Moi?), I would argue that, on a Fender Custom Shop guitar, the Fender Custom Shop pickup is original and the retro-fitted Texas Special is an interloper. There is an argument for leaving the Fender C.S. pickup alone and making all changes to the non-original pickup (or replacing it).

The word "combine" also carries the secondary sense of appropriate sonic tastes. Those are entirely subjective.

I asked Fender for the Spec sheet/Shop Floor Traveller after I got it and surprisingly it was fitted with the Texas Special in the bridge from the start.  Under "Hardware and Electronics Notes" it reads "Modern Wiring".

Alegree

Funkfingers said:

thebreeze said:

Should I get a soldering iron? Is this something I can/should do myself? I've not done anything like that before.

Yes. Yes. Uh-oh.

If you are not confident and/or experienced in handling guitar pickups, it is probably advisable to turn the work over to a professional guitar technician.

Various contributors have suggested altering the neck/Rhythm pickup for the simple reason that it is easier to access than the bridge/Treble pickup. 

thebreeze said:

@Funkfingers are there only certain bridge pickups that will combine with this neck pickup?

If I were being pedantic (Wot? Moi?), I would argue that, on a Fender Custom Shop guitar, the Fender Custom Shop pickup is original and the retro-fitted Texas Special is an interloper. There is an argument for leaving the Fender C.S. pickup alone and making all changes to the non-original pickup (or replacing it).

The word "combine" also carries the secondary sense of appropriate sonic tastes. Those are entirely subjective.

thebreeze said:

How do you know/tell which ones will work?

Once upon a time, before an outside contractor ****ed it completely, the Seymour Duncan website published magnetic polarity and coil winding direction information for its Antiquity replacement pickup range. 

Conventionally, Fender single coils send the start of the coil as ground (black conductor) and the finish as hot (white conductor). 

If you know both coil direction and magnetic polarity, you can create pairs that will operate together in the correct phase relationship - either with (partial) hum-cancellation or as Nature Leo intended. 

I've said the neck because the bridge pickup forms part of the guitar ground.

Funkfingers

thebreeze said:
I asked Fender for the Spec sheet/Shop Floor Traveller after I got it and surprisingly it was fitted with the Texas Special in the bridge from the start.  Under "Hardware and Electronics Notes" it reads "Modern Wiring".

In that case, the pickup choice is intentional, if something of an output mismatch. What you are hearing as a volume dip may just be the less powerful pickup comb filtering away some of the frequency information from the more powerful pickup.

In this instance, there is no need to take a soldering iron to anything. 

Instead, set the neck/Rhythm pickup as close to the strings as you dare. Then, lower the bridge/Treble pickup to obtain a better output balance. If the Roy Buchanan snarl diminishes, you have lowered the bridge pickup too far.

If you are flush, it might be worth paying either of the pickup builders who has responded to your question to modify the Texas Special lead pickup. Have the coil partially unwound to give a D.C. resistance meter reading in the area of 6.0 to 6.7 Kilohms and add a secondary output conductor. The remaining copper wire is then rewound on the bobbin to provide the full "Texas" output. It will be necessary to add some means of switching between the two output levels of the bridge/Treble pickup.

Panama_Jack666

Don't tease me with a tele thread without pictures!

thebreeze

Panama_Jack666 said:

Don't tease me with a tele thread without pictures!

You're right, sorry - I will endeavour to put this right (but may not happen immediately).

thebreeze

Possibly not to everyone's taste but I really dig the bling and the double binding.  It has a 10' radius which I'm getting used to (I usually prefer 7.25').  It's very responsive and dynamic but I'm still ambivalent about the out of phase middle position. Let's see!

Funkfingers

thebreeze said:

When I put it in the middle position the sound is very nasally and "honky", kind of plinky ... is there something going on with the wiring? 

Posting a pic of the selector switch and pots might help to answer this. 

The bridge saddles have been changed from "threaded" steel to compensated brass. Who knows what else about the guitar is non-standard?

thebreeze

The Shop Floor Traveller says the bridge saddles are "Gatton Tele".  Does that make sense?  I like the brass ones though.  I think it was made to some different kinds of specs.

Is a pic of the selector switch and pots just a matter of undoing the screws and lifting the plate up?

richardhomer

You should post that in the 'Show us your gold top' thread as well!

thebreeze

richardhomer said:

You should post that in the 'Show us your gold top' thread as well!

I did wonder Richard - I think I might have to!