Pedal switchers - advice wanted please

impmann

My pedalboard isn't huge but I'm really noticing a top end roll off and a lack of... that 'x' factor when they are all in bypass compared to exactly the same leads going direct to the amp.

This has got me thinking about using some kind of loop switcher. I find I do a fair amount of tap dancing - usually switching between modulated clean sounds and overdriven sounds. Therefore some degree of programability or being able to flip-flop between two sounds would be handy too.

The pedals - in the order they appear in the chain are:

Korg Pitchblack
EH Soul Food
EH Micro Pog
Okko Diablo
RAT
Mooer Trellicopter
Mooer Elec Lady
Boss RT20
Catlinbread Belle Epoch
Catlinbread Echorec

Both the Catlinbreads are set to trails rather than True Bypass.

Would anyone have any advice about Pedal Switcher/Loop Switcher pedals, as to what's worth having? I've considered the Joyo PXL stuff and the Mooer one but am concerned that due their "value for money" build they may not be up to the job. I'd love a Gigrig G2 but I'm not 100% sure I'd need the functionality (although being able to change where something sits in the chain would be cool - as the Elec Lady sounds epic before the distortion, ditto the Belle Epoch but I tend to use them more the other way around) plus the price is... high.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Thankyouplease

vasselmeyer

I had a Joyo PXL. It was absolutely bullet proof in terms of build but there was an occasional "pop" when switching some pedals in and out. In the end it was too simplistic for me (e.g., only four presets per bank) and I moved it on for a BOSS ES-8.

In terms of what you want, you need to ask:
Do you want delay trails?
Do you want to change the pedal order?
Do you want midi?
Do you want to use an expression pedal?
Do you want to switch external devices (amps, reverbs, pedals)
Do you want tap tempo?

From what you've said a G2 or a BOSS ES-8 might be overkill but they can do all of the above and more. The BOSS is just a touch more capable than the G2 but more complicated. I haven't investigated since I got the BOSS but I suspect there are units out there that will tick all your boxes from outfits like One Control and Digitech as well as the two I have mentioned.

impmann

vasselmeyer said:

In terms of what you want, you need to ask:
Do you want delay trails?
Do you want to change the pedal order?
Do you want midi?
Do you want to use an expression pedal?
Do you want to switch external devices (amps, reverbs, pedals)
Do you want tap tempo?

Yes
Ideally although not essential
No
No
No
No

Thanks for the input - appreciated!

hotpickups

I second the boss ES5 I moved on my disaster Area DPC 8EZ for it as it had more features. More than I need at the moment but still pretty good and intuitive to use. 

ICBM

Boss LS-2 with the tuner in front of it and the delays after it.

OK it won't allow change of pedal order, but it's small, neat and fully buffered, with level controls for each loop.

Beexter

ICBM said:

Boss LS-2 with the tuner in front of it and the delays after it.

OK it won't allow change of pedal order, but it's small, neat and fully buffered, with level controls for each loop.

The LS-2 is such a useful box- good call.

Lebarque

Wot no Bright Onion?

impmann

Lebarque said:

Wot no Bright Onion?

That's a good call but...

I think they just use DPDT switches which have a few concerns for me. Pops and bangs when switching mainly but also the longevity of these switches in use can be a problem. They are an inexpensive solution though. Any first hand on them?

Wazmeister

I cannot recommend the G2 highly enough... ive owned two and the new 'soft' switches are amazing, and lovely to use.

The buffer/pre amp/post gain options sound incredible, and the G2 on its own with no pedals, is possibly worth the money alone.

Superb. Best of the bunch, but expensive.

Drew_TNBD

I think Line 6 should get in on this switcher action. You hear me @Digital_Igloo ?!

The Helix is almost perfect for it. The only thing that lets it down for this particular use case is the size.

OP, definitely consider the Boss MS-3, ES-5, and ES-8. They're kinda the kings of this arena right now.

professorben

Drew_TNBD said:

I think Line 6 should get in on this switcher action. You hear me @Digital_Igloo ?!

The Helix is almost perfect for it. The only thing that lets it down for this particular use case is the size.

OP, definitely consider the Boss MS-3, ES-5, and ES-8. They're kinda the kings of this arena right now.

Let's be honest though, Line6 will produce an initially brilliant product that after a couple of years will reveal its inherent design flaws and limitations, just like the Helix did.







(pre emptive Helix backlash post)

Drew_TNBD

professorben said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I think Line 6 should get in on this switcher action. You hear me @Digital_Igloo ?!

The Helix is almost perfect for it. The only thing that lets it down for this particular use case is the size.

OP, definitely consider the Boss MS-3, ES-5, and ES-8. They're kinda the kings of this arena right now.

Let's be honest though, Line6 will produce an initially brilliant product that after a couple of years will reveal its inherent design flaws and limitations, just like the Helix did.







(pre emptive Helix backlash post)

+100 (add that to your count in 800 years)

siremoon

vasselmeyer said:

I had a Joyo PXL. It was absolutely bullet proof in terms of build but there was an occasional "pop" when switching some pedals in and out.

This.  I gigged one for a couple of years - it was built like a tank and totally reliable.  I only stopped using it when I went over to Helix.

Teetonetal

Need for trails make this easy. none of the joyo, moen, alligator, Glab and current Musiclab stuff does it. right now I think that leaves you with the Boss ES5/8 or G2 if you want them preserved. The nice thing about the boss is it can also add trails to a pedal (like the DM1100) that doesn't have trails

The Boss is an awesoem piece of kit. 8 loops, insert point for 4cm, pedal order switching, parallel mixing and awesome midi. Also, crucially cheaper than the G2 and more readily available.

Someone posted that MusicLABom have just released a switcher with some of these features aswell, but I don't know if it's available yet, or any good.

Given the number of pedals you have, go for an ES8

peteri

Despite selling one now (purely for space/money reasons), another vote for the G2.

I've had a lot of switchers, and the G2 is just amazing in terms of ease of use, quality and 'sound'.

It's midi is a little limited, but it works and there are workarounds (I know maybe there shouldn't be at the price, but still).

But everything else is top-notch and the ease/joy of making changes on the fly is great, along with the ability to mix preset and stomp box mode. Haven't found anything else which does the same.

impmann

Thanks for all the input, chaps.

I think I'm coming down on the side of the Boss ES8 - I love the G2, but it is more expensive...

I don't think the cheaper end stuff is going to do what I want, sadly. And I'm of the mind that you buy cheap you buy twice - and I'll always want the extra functionality of the ES8.

To those that have them - what is the durability like? Up there with Boss of old? And would you worry about buying a used one?

Thanks!

vasselmeyer

I've gigged my ES-8 weekly for a year with no issues. Out of a sample of 1, I know that's not a representative number, but it does feel very solid. I think it would be the switches if anything went wrong; once you're wired up, you won't be moving stuff in and out of the jacks very often. 

mynamesnotbob

I have the ES-8 and have had for over a year, it's been rock solid despite gigging it. Speaking to people in the know thhe G2 is superior in build quality, with things like the foot switches being the absolute best and the Boss being 'good' - it's certainly been reliable. But as said, all you do at a gig is take the lid off your board and you're away - there is not the far of plugging in and out.

I think the ease of use G2 would win again - but once you know your way around the ES-8 it's a doddle.

The big draw for me on the ES-8 was I could get one at the time! Also at the time you could not reorder effects on the G2 - this has now changed, but it's not as flexible as the boss. The most useful reason for this (for me) is stacking gains.

Also you need to budget on new cables, I made all my own but take much more space up than solder less. In the end I gave up and spent a small fortune on SIS plugs and cables.

I use mine with the following: 

L1: Cali76 Delux
L2: Mobius Pre
L3: BD-2
L4: SL Drive
L5: PlexiDrive Delux
L6: EP Booster
L7: Pitch Fork
L8: TC Mimic

Into Amp, then:

Amp Loop:
Boss Volume Pedal (stereo for left and right)
Into Source Audio EQ (switched on Midi depending on Need)
Into Strymon Mobius (Switched on Midi)
Into Strymon Timeline (switched via Midi)
Into Strymon Bigsky (switched via Midi)

Expression pedal routed via TRS to Pitch fork, Midi for the Strymons

I use assigns to use patches 1-3 on each bank, then switched 4-8 to bring in Comp, Boost, Mod Delay etc.

So for instance I have a clean patch and then I use assigns to get (Comp on and off, Clean boost, Chorus, Delay, Verb)

Then a dirty, then a really dirty variation on above

Then I use each bank for a song setup and go through depending on song section. But I normally use the base three patches and with the ability to bring in as I need).

You can reorder, switch on and off, combine with a single switch, bring in expression pedals as and when, parallel mix, route to different amps (Wet/Dry)

So sometimes I have a signal in, route through all the dirt pedals to one clean amp, then a parallel route to a dirty amp to combine it, then with a single button switch to a clean channel on the right amp, drop the drives, and add a comp to both left and right.

It will take days and lots of effort to get set up right, but once done it just works as you had in your head

Gassage

@impmann Boss have been really upping their game in recent times. I'd have no fear in going for it.

mynamesnotbob

impmann said:

Thanks for all the input, chaps.

I think I'm coming down on the side of the Boss ES8 - I love the G2, but it is more expensive...

I don't think the cheaper end stuff is going to do what I want, sadly. And I'm of the mind that you buy cheap you buy twice - and I'll always want the extra functionality of the ES8.

To those that have them - what is the durability like? Up there with Boss of old? And would you worry about buying a used one?

Thanks!

As for buying a used one, no I wouldn't worry about it. There was an early issue with a volume drop that seemed to require a new board from Boss, so chemck you have unity gain without the 6db/12db boost and you're fine. Those that went seem to go in the early days.

Teetonetal

I have the ES 5, which used to be @Wazmeister's Build quality is what you would expect from Boss. Just solid and works. Not heard mention of the above issue, so maybe give that a quick google.