My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

FarleyUK

Had the second band's rehearsal last night, and the first with the AX8. They didn't even realise I had an entirely new rig, but it was so much more responsive and dynamic compared to the Helix, it was like night and day. I was stood there grinning like a loon!

Ran it through my 2 new DXR10's in a wet-dry-wet chain in the AX8. Sounded awesome!

Even had a guy in another band I know who has a Helix come in while we were playing to check it out as he couldn't believe how good it sounded.

One quick question though... I'm using a DAW to set the patch levels. Is there a specific LU level I should be aiming for..? Or doesn't it matter, as long as there's no clipping etc.?

Beexter

FarleyUK said:y

One quick question though... I'm using a DAW to set the patch levels. Is there a specific LU level I should be aiming for..? Or doesn't it matter, as long as there's no clipping etc.?

Do you not use the on-board VU meter for setting patch levels? That's the way I do it and it's very consistent. 

guitarfishbay

I just use the level meter in Logic when recording, to make sure my highest peaks don't go higher than -10db, really I aim for -12db but sometimes the odd note ends up being a little louder, if it’s fractions every now and then I leave it if it’s consistently hotter than -10 I’ll adjust.  There's no advantage to being louder than that normally as there'll be enough headroom afterwards to go as loud as you want and it should mean there's no real chance of clipping.

I use a Matrix power amp and traditional cabs so there's no danger of me not having enough headroom, my cabs will blow up long before I get close to 1000 watts.  I'd imagine same scenario with a pair of DXR 10s - loads of headroom (and less chance of them blowing up since the drivers are built with the power in mind).

Which is a long winded way of saying it probably doesn't matter as long as you're not clipping, but it's best to be safe and give yourself plenty of headroom.

FarleyUK

Axe FX quantum 9 is out - AX8 should hopefully be soon!

Clarky

DavusPG said:

Clarky said:

DavusPG said:

Clarky said:

in the studio I play my Axe through a pair of studio monitors
live I use a Matrix GT1000FX power amp driving a pair of Marshall 4x12 cabs

Presumably no feed to FOH from your AX8 then?

Depends on what venues you're playing I guess.

I'd written off using mine with my regular 2x12 cab but should give it a go. 

I don't have an AX8, I have Axe-FX II

no feed to FoH in any venue
just mic the cabs old school..
it's easy.. for the stage crew it's business as usual..
also bear in mind that I mostly play outside the UK and so there will be places where the stage crew don't speak the same languages as me.. so explaining stuff outside the norm could be difficult..

also... I like the beamy nature of the cabs..
I never have them right behind me, but off to my right side a little
it means I can step in and out of the jet stream as and when I like

The Matrix power amp is light weight, very loud and tonally very transparent..
so all the tone comes from the Axe-FX and the real cabs

I had wondered about this: feeding a cab and still micing it like my band mates with their regular amp&cab setups, but it seemed a waste of the AX's ability to go straight to FOH.

Undoubtedly something I need to experiment with as I still have a tube amp and a 2x12 cab, so must hook up the AX8 and try driving it with the tube power and regular cab. 

So presumably you disable power amp and cab modelling on your patches?

you have to remember...
FRFR with IR's sounds like being in the control room with your cabs mic'd listening through studio monitors..
real cabs are.. well.. real cabs..
so on stage, real cabs are that familiar trouser flapping joy

live I only disable cab modelling
power amp modelling stays on because the Matrix is tonally transparent

so.. I only use the Axe cab emulation when practicing and recording..
on stage the Axe makes the amp tone, the Matrix makes it loud without tonal colouration and the cabs do what cabs do the best... which makes my heart race with joy as I bask in the volume...

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

If you are using a Matrix or other solid state power amp there is no need to switch off power amp modelling.

Running cab models into traditional cabs usually doesn’t sound great but there are no rules saying you can’t do it.

if you leave cab modelling on and run through real cabs:
- you'll lose a lot of level
- top end will go missing
- low end will get strong

so... you'll not be as loud and you'll lose a lot of definition..

Clarky

Beexter said:

FarleyUK said:y

One quick question though... I'm using a DAW to set the patch levels. Is there a specific LU level I should be aiming for..? Or doesn't it matter, as long as there's no clipping etc.?

Do you not use the on-board VU meter for setting patch levels? That's the way I do it and it's very consistent. 

I use backing tracks to dial in levels, then refine it at rehearsals...
the levels your various tones should be at relative to each other has nothing to do with VU meters..
it's all about context in a live band setting..
a live band can have a very extreme dynamic range.. so soft can be very soft.. and full-on can knock down walls...

out of context you'll think my lead tones do not step up enough and my clean tones are way too soft..
live on stage they all work a treat..

peteri

Just to update a little. 

Ive been toying with the idea of the Axe-FX II, the only real reason being that I can run two amp blocks and therefore not have to compromise on the four core sounds. 

But thats a lot of money just for that when you include a floorboard! And it’s not so tiny at the AX8. 

So today changed my mindset a bit. Viewed the preset as a two channel amp. So I have a blues one with a Vibroverb and Dumble, then an AC30 patch, then a Plexi etc. 

It means patches rather than scenes. But the delay is so small for my use. Completely fine. 

Vibroverb AA is sounding great!

Jonathanthomas83

Honestly, I dunno if I’m doing something wrong, but my scenes have the same/similar delay as my patches so...hmmm! It’s never bothered me so it’s all good. Thing about using scene controllers to up/down levels instead of bypass amp blocks, maybe.

John_A

How flexible are the AX8 scenes compared to Helix snapshots?  Can you change a heap of parameters all at once, like amp gain, delay level etc.  Can you use 2 amps in a patch but only have one active at a time or are you limited to one amp?

peteri

It’s quite different to be honest. 

in many ways the Helix is More flexible in that you can automate any parameter on the AX it works quite differently. 

Almost all blocks (including amps and cabs) have x/y and this can change with the scene (snapshot), so you can have a clean amp of a Fender and a dirty amp of a Boogie for example. 

And in each scene you can toggle blocks on and off. 

Finally you have two modifiers which can have a different value per scene. So additionally you could have gain changing and (for example) and maybe the volume. 

The modifiers can change more than one parameter too. 

Honestly- it’s certainly flexible enough 

John_A

So you can switch between the Fender and Boogie with no audiable gap?

Jonathanthomas83

@John_A out of curiosity, is the Helix gapless?

John_A

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@John_A out of curiosity, is the Helix gapless?

Yes snapshot changes are gapless on the Helix

peteri

Yes no audible gap between scene changes. And that can be both an amp and cab change.

and to be honest barely any gap between patches. Yes there’s some but it’s pretty damn quick

Clarky

peteri said:

Just to update a little. 

Ive been toying with the idea of the Axe-FX II, the only real reason being that I can run two amp blocks and therefore not have to compromise on the four core sounds. 

But thats a lot of money just for that when you include a floorboard! And it’s not so tiny at the AX8. 

So today changed my mindset a bit. Viewed the preset as a two channel amp. So I have a blues one with a Vibroverb and Dumble, then an AC30 patch, then a Plexi etc. 

It means patches rather than scenes. But the delay is so small for my use. Completely fine. 

Vibroverb AA is sounding great!

think on this...
you have scenes and controllers
you can turn assign the boost switch to a pedal to change a riff tone to a soloing tone..
that is essentially two amp channels without X-Y switching the amp [I do this with the 5153Red]
you can use scenes of morphing to clean the amp further and 'fix up' the tone..
so that's 3 tones and you've still not switched X-Y..
experiment with amp types that can work well from clean right through to hi-gain..
you can get surprising results..
changing tones does not have to mean changing amp.. 
you can be smart and creative with 1.. this will result in seamless tone transitions..

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Honestly, I dunno if I’m doing something wrong, but my scenes have the same/similar delay as my patches so...hmmm! It’s never bothered me so it’s all good. Thing about using scene controllers to up/down levels instead of bypass amp blocks, maybe.

if you are X-Y switching, the amp block is reloading so the delay is not the scene change, it's the amp switching over

Clarky

John_A said:

How flexible are the AX8 scenes compared to Helix snapshots?  Can you change a heap of parameters all at once, like amp gain, delay level etc.  Can you use 2 amps in a patch but only have one active at a time or are you limited to one amp?

Helix snapshots are more powerful than Fractal scenes
Snapshots can alter all kinds of parameters, Scene just switch blocks off / on and switch X / Y

to get away with what I do with the Axe, I have the MFC transmit 2 simultaneous MIDI commands
one changes scene, the other sets the value of a modifier via a MIDI CC which I exploit within the Axe-FX [I use this for panning.
Also Fractal has a feature called a 'scene controller'. This is very useful for having a parameter set on a per scene basis.. great for changing the strength of a reverb or delay scene by scene...

overall though, if Scenes could be expanded to the degree of control offered by Snapshots in the Axe-FX I'd be a very happy bunny indeed

Clarky

John_A said:

So you can switch between the Fender and Boogie with no audiable gap?

In an Axe-FX II yes because you can place them in separate amp blocks
In the AX8 no because they'll need to be within the same amp block so you're X-Y switching the block

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@John_A out of curiosity, is the Helix gapless?

no it's not..
and changing preset cuts the delay / reverb tails..
this is why Snapshots become important..
essentially, build everything you need for a given song within a single preset and change Snapshot rather than preset