Thinking of upgrading my DAW CPU

Cirrus

In 2014 I got a PC with an 1150 socket motherboard and an i5 4690k 3.5ghz 4 core processor which I overclock to around 4ghz.

It's *just* about fast enough that I can get towards the end of a mix before it starts creaking under the load of VST plugs, in a typical ~35 channel mix with typical bus processing as well I've usually got to freeze a bunch of channels to be able to make it through a track without dropouts, glitching etc.

So I thought 3 years down the line I'd have a look at see what I could do about upgrading the processor. I think if I could speed the PC up by about 30% I'd not have to worry about running out of steam.

Am I being dumb, or are CPUs at least as expensive as they were in 2014? It looks like to get a 30% increase in power I'd need to spend over £300 - anything less of an upgrade wouldn't be worth the investment really.

Danny1969

To be honest I think somethings amiss other than the processor ... 35 audio tracks with plugs is not a big load for an i5 4690. My own i5 which is a little less powerful than yours doesn't struggle on 50 odd tracks of 24 \ 48 audio all with EQ, comp and some other processing plus a few VI's and normally 4 master verb and delay  effects on aux buses 

Something else running in the background using power maybe ?

Cirrus

I don't think so - nothing I can see on task manager anyway, and at the start of the mix the Daw's (Sonar x3) cpu meters are low. I think it might just be the VSTs I'm using - quite a lot of modelling stuff like IK's Neve/SSL stuff, Waves J37 seems to use a bit of juice, if I stick NLS channel across 40 tracks then there's a lot going on there, then the typical 4/5 Valhalla reverb and delay sends but typically EQ'd as well.

I'm probably doing too much.

Then over the last couple of weeks I've been playing round with Harrison Mixbus 32c, and I think it's great but because it's modelling EQs/ compressors on each channel then summing busses and tape modelling all the time, the CPU's at like 50% before I've even brought the faders up.

Strangefan

Im with Danny here, your processor should have no issues with that load, I have up to 30 audtio tracks and most have at least 2 VSTS inc Waves, have you got an ssd?

Cirrus

For the OS drive, yes.

Cirrus

Ok, did a geeky little mockup in Excel to see how much processing is actually going on a mix, and to be fair I've counted 118 plugs which sounds like a lot but I don't think there's anything unjustifiable going on... Interestingly I don't get much difference in CPU usage between 44.1 and 96k projects, I guess most plugs are upsampling anyway.

If anyone can suggest a way to check for background stuff stealing power or a way to further optimise the pc, suggestions welcome!

guitarfishbay

What buffer are you running? That doesn’t seem like a lot but I don’t rinse the modelling stuff as a first port of call, I mostly use FabFilter until I want more character than the sound has then pull out the Waves/SoundToys/Slate etc, rather than beginning with the modelled stuff 

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

What buffer are you running?

2048 for mixing.

Winny_Pooh

You might consider submixing to 5 busses eg drums all, kick, bass, gtrs, vox etc and applying NLS/Mixbus on the busses only. It will also be easier to automate the overall buss volumes for your rides etc post compression. 

Funkfingers

Cirrus said:

In 2014 I got a PC with an 1150 socket motherboard and an i5 4690k 3.5ghz 4 core processor which I overclock to around 4ghz. ... I thought I'd have a look at see what I could do about upgrading the processor. 

Er, how much RAM has your machine currently got? How much more could it accept?

Cirrus

16gb, more than enough for my needs - It's all audio tracks and vst processing so beyond a certain point all that matters is disk speed, Processor speed and that the motherboard busses can shuffle audio data streams around fast enough, which they can.

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

What buffer are you running? That doesn’t seem like a lot but I don’t rinse the modelling stuff as a first port of call, I mostly use FabFilter until I want more character than the sound has then pull out the Waves/SoundToys/Slate etc, rather than beginning with the modelled stuff

How processor heavy is fabfilter? I tend to break out TDL Nova for more surgical stuff these days but it's actually quite processor intensive for an EQ - If there's a bunch of them on a session I notice it.

Freebird

The new 8700k looks interesting if your DAW has good multi-core performance.

http://techreport.com/review/32642/intel-core-i7-8700k-cpu-reviewed/14

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2017/10/05/first-look-at-the-intel-8700k-as-the-i7-range-gets-a-caffine-injection/

I hope I haven't derailed the thread 

guitarfishbay

Cirrus said:

guitarfishbay said:

What buffer are you running? That doesn’t seem like a lot but I don’t rinse the modelling stuff as a first port of call, I mostly use FabFilter until I want more character than the sound has then pull out the Waves/SoundToys/Slate etc, rather than beginning with the modelled stuff

How processor heavy is fabfilter? I tend to break out TDL Nova for more surgical stuff these days but it's actually quite processor intensive for an EQ - If there's a bunch of them on a session I notice it.

Isn’t Nova a dynamic EQ?

FF don’t have one, closest they have is pro MB which is a multiband comp.

Pro Q2 and Pro C2 are pretty light CPU and run zero latency. Give the demos a go, 30 days unlimited on all their plugs.

I use zero latency Pro Q2 during tracking but when mixing I usually use natural phase mode especially on guitar and overheads, just keeps the higher frequencies a bit better together I find. NP is stil pretty light cpu but sounds nicer if you’re doing multiple cuts especially for killing harsh resonances etc, the tones don’t fall apart as fast as ZL mode (or similar in stock EQs). Have sometimes found cuts make other bits sound less together, NP has more mileage here I find

Cirrus

guitarfishbay said:

Isn’t Nova a dynamic EQ?

Yes, but if you don't activate the dynamics section of each band it functions as a standard 4-band +H/LP parametric EQ. I'd always assumed it wouldn't waste processing on stuff that was turned off, but that is, I admit, a baseless assumption.

guitarfishbay

Give Pro Q2 a go, I like it. Lots of useful features. 

https://youtu.be/GYTCQeggyzo

(can’t seem to get this to embed but it’s a features overview)

guitarfishbay

I think i5 vs i7 might be a factor in the CPU.

So according to this article http://uk.pcmag.com/cpus-components-products/10259/feature/which-cpu-should-you-buy-intel-core-i5-vs-i7

"The quick explanation is that all Core i7 CPUs use Hyper-Threading, so an eight-core CPU can handle 16 streams, a four-core can handle eight streams, and a dual-core can handle four streams. Core i5 uses Hyper-Threading to make a dual-core CPU act like a four-core one, but if you have a Core i5 processor with four true cores, it won't have Hyper-Threading."

I googled your CPU and it does not have hyperthreading https://ark.intel.com/products/80811/Intel-Core-i5-4690K-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

guitarfishbay

If your DAW works the same way as I think Logic does, when you put stuff on a bus then that bus has to be computed on a single core.  Therefore a 4 core i5 can only have things split across 4 locations, where an i7 with hyper threading can split across 8 locations, which could be a factor in performance here

Heartfeltdawn

I finally upgraded last year and debated Kaby Lake and all the rest. In the end I settled for a 1150 motherboard and an i7 4770 processor. At around £150 for a s/h 44770 and flogging your i5 for £100, it's a cheap easy upgrade. 

guitarfishbay

Have you got any further with this yet?

Cirrus

No, I'm going to go for an i7 but want to get this current project or the way first on the off chance I bugger it up and end up with no DAW at all, and I have to do all the data steak calculations by hand with a slide rule and graph paper. Round trip latency: 63 years.

Ironically posted while bouncing out a few tracks to save on cpu...