When people only refer to "finger style" or" strumming"....

Lewy

....it makes me wonder whether people just don't know that there's a whole world of guitar music played like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWaWxcW6x8I

I know there are other flatpickers (for that is what this is) who frequent these parts, but for beginners or more experienced electric players getting into acoustic you can read a whole lot of guitars reviews, watch a ton of youtubes etc and literally never come across this style of solo flatpicking.

It seems to me that a lot of people get into fingerstyle because they want to make self contained music for solo performance and assume that's the only way you can create intricate arrangements. It's not!

thomasross20

Totally aware of this, sorry if I neglect it in my posts  
I particularly love bluegrass picking! 
TBH one of the reasons I like acoustic is... it's just me and the guitar - I like to leave the plectrum to the electric work (though not always). 

Is this your main style of acoustic playing, @Lewy?

BigLicks67

Here's another gratuitous Bryan Sutton video  - in man plays classical piece with plectrum shock.



I also recommend the greekflatpicker videos on YT as they are always well recorded and feature some really nice guitars.

Lewy

thomasross20 said:

Totally aware of this, sorry if I neglect it in my posts  
I particularly love bluegrass picking! 
TBH one of the reasons I like acoustic is... it's just me and the guitar - I like to leave the plectrum to the electric work (though not always). 

Is this your main style of acoustic playing, @Lewy?

Dude... didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing anyone of neglect! Sorry if it came out that way - just looking to shine a light on something I think a lot of people overlook.

Gig wise, my solo sets these days are probably a third fingerpicking, a third bottleneck and third flatpicking. But the latter is pretty much the only one I practice with a view to advancing in. I love the technical challenge and ultimately I just think guitars sound so wonderful played this way.

thomasross20

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly.... 
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more? 

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric. 

Great videos, those!! 

Lewy

thomasross20 said:

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly.... 
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more? 

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric. 

Great videos, those!! 

Thanks!

Those vids are all here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A2burtz1C5pBnHUN_eqIA/search?query=lewis+cohen

I never used to be into acoustic at all - I was on that messianic electric blooze mission that so many people embark on, but I could just never find other players who were hearing what I was hearing in the music and who wanted to play blues the way I wanted to hear it. So I thought fuck it, how can I do this on my own? And that was the gateway into all of it. Started out really getting into bottleneck...that led to working on alt thumb fingerpicking with more focus...which opens up a whole universe of material and arranging. At this point, I was thinking "I can play acoustic guitar" - a thought which lasted right up until I heard real flatpicking about 6 years ago

Floof

The right hand technique on that OP looks brutal - the eveness of the sound between single notes and the strums - how does one develop that?   

Lewy

Floof said:

The right hand technique on that OP looks brutal - the eveness of the sound between single notes and the strums - how does one develop that?   

The fundamental technique of flatpicking is that the picking hand is constantly moving down and up to the beat in 8th notes whether you are playing rhythm or single note lines. Down beat - Downstroke, up beat = Upstroke. A bar of 4/4 would be DUDUDUDU. Doesn't matter if you don't play all the notes....it could just as easily be DU*U*UD*

That's how there's always the same momentum and drive when alternative from single notes to strums, because the picking hand is just working away like a metronome and always spelling out a strong downstroke on the down beat.

Get that down. Then add a shit-tonne of practice

An amazing illustration of power of this approach comes in this video at 0:04. Norman Blame needs to tune a string...but listen to the wicked thing he does on the bass string .... all using that DU approach. He hammers it again at 0:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccdtho_QOP8

Floof

Holy shitballs  

Floof

Interesting - same guy

thomasross20

@Lewy wow, loads of videos!! Haven't had time to watch them all but I can see all those different picking techniques you use. Do you get lessons for this or for singing or is it all self-taught? Good on you for recording those and posting - thanks - love seeing players playing!

AliGorie

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c


I'm always mystified why 'flatpickers' don't consciously study Irish tenor banjo technique more so for playing Irish music, hey it works on  banjo - guitar players and their techniques don't convey that genre convincingly.

heres ITB plectrum technique on a tenor guitar -

thomasross20

My picking has always had a "bounce" (away from the fretboard) to it, which helps with this srot of thing, but has always somewhat hindered my strict alternate picking. 

May I also add this. I don't know who this guy is but he covers the basic flamenco techniques decently enough:

Lewy

thomasross20 said:

@Lewy wow, loads of videos!! Haven't had time to watch them all but I can see all those different picking techniques you use. Do you get lessons for this or for singing or is it all self-taught? Good on you for recording those and posting - thanks - love seeing players playing!

Actually I didn’t recorded them - that club records everyone that plays there and puts them up on their channel. It’s nice of them to do it.

Singing is self taught. Had a lesson early on with Michael Messer for the bottleneck, and then was just lucky to get to play with some really amazing slide players and learn from watching them. The fingerpicking I kind of figured out for myself. Flatpicking - I do Artistworks with Bryan Sutton (the guy in the original video). It’s brilliant.

Lewy

AliGorie said:

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

He is hilarious, but also has zero bullshit about him. I've heard some amazing tales of people walking out of masterclasses he's done because of the way he's answered their questions e.g.

Q. "If I can only practice 20 minutes a day, what would you recommend?"
A. "Give up"

Q. "I'm having trouble improvising"
A. "Play happy birthday for me"
Q. *tries and fluffs around trying to find the melody and fails*
A. There's your problem...you want to solo over changes and you can't find the notes of happy birthday on your instrument....

Harsh but fair!

TheOtherDennis

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

He is hilarious, but also has zero bullshit about him. I've heard some amazing tales of people walking out of masterclasses he's done because of the way he's answered their questions e.g.

Q. "If I can only practice 20 minutes a day, what would you recommend?"
A. "Give up"

Q. "I'm having trouble improvising"
A. "Play happy birthday for me"
Q. *tries and fluffs around trying to find the melody and fails*
A. There's your problem...you want to solo over changes and you can't find the notes of happy birthday on your instrument....

Harsh but fair!

I disagree. I think he's just harsh. Just because you don't know a particular tune - no matter how easy it is - doesn't mean you'll never be able to do anything. And the answer to the first question is "You need to find a way to get more time. Get up half an hour earlier every day and practice then as well as the 20 minutes you already have, it'll make a big difference." Encourage them to think about it, don't just tell him to, effectively, fuck off.

And there are plenty of fingerstyle guitarists with a sense of fun. Eric Roche, John Goldie, some of the guys I used to see at the now sadly defunct Acoustic Avalon played some terrific tunes (Skiing Moose, Ladies Night, The Cat Came Back) whose names I can't remember. Not everyone thinks an acoustic is just for dreary torch songs, fingerpicked or otherwise.

AliGorie

this guy will put ya right TOD -
my favorite little Flamenco guy, tells it like it is (to him) and do check out his ideas on the actual instrument - how they're built and what from.

BigLicks67

Lewy said:

thomasross20 said:

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly.... 
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more? 

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric. 

Great videos, those!! 

Thanks!

Those vids are all here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A2burtz1C5pBnHUN_eqIA/search?query=lewis+cohen

Great work. Nice to see a cover of 'Chocolate Jesus'. Have you heard 'Wicked Grin' by John Hammond Jr he does a great version of 'Murder In The Red Barn'.

Lewy

TheOtherDennis said:

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

He is hilarious, but also has zero bullshit about him. I've heard some amazing tales of people walking out of masterclasses he's done because of the way he's answered their questions e.g.

Q. "If I can only practice 20 minutes a day, what would you recommend?"
A. "Give up"

Q. "I'm having trouble improvising"
A. "Play happy birthday for me"
Q. *tries and fluffs around trying to find the melody and fails*
A. There's your problem...you want to solo over changes and you can't find the notes of happy birthday on your instrument....

Harsh but fair!

I disagree. I think he's just harsh. Just because you don't know a particular tune - no matter how easy it is - doesn't mean you'll never be able to do anything. And the answer to the first question is "You need to find a way to get more time. Get up half an hour earlier every day and practice then as well as the 20 minutes you already have, it'll make a big difference." Encourage them to think about it, don't just tell him to, effectively, fuck off.

If he was teaching beginning or intermediate players I’d agree wholeheartedly but he doesn’t put himself out there as that kind of educator - he only ever does advanced masterclass type things. People with aspirations at that level shouldn’t expect to be coddled and should appreciate the plain talking.

Bryan Sutton (guy in the original video above)  IS a first class educator and is very nurturing to people of all levels and intentions. Grier never claims to be that.

Lewy

BigLicks67 said:

Lewy said:

thomasross20 said:

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly.... 
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more? 

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric. 

Great videos, those!! 

Thanks!

Those vids are all here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A2burtz1C5pBnHUN_eqIA/search?query=lewis+cohen

Great work. Nice to see a cover of 'Chocolate Jesus'. Have you heard 'Wicked Grin' by John Hammond Jr he does a great version of 'Murder In The Red Barn'.

Cheers

Wicked Grin is a top 10, maybe top 5 album for me. Love it. Not sure I can pick a favourite off there, it's all so good.

jellyroll

@Lewy Great videos! Your Good Ole Mountain Dew performance is FANTASTIC! And singing on top. Well impressed.