Downsizing (slightly) from 65DRRI to 65 Princeton with efficient 1x12?

noisepolluter

I don’t suppose anyone’s done this? Was idly musing that my deluxe reverb never goes above 3 and it would be nice if it was a bit smaller and 5 or so pounds lighter. 

If I put a 1x12 Cannabis Rex in there (as I have in DRRI and am very pleased with) would it be a comparable sound, just a bit ‘smaller’/boxier with less headroom?

Suspect I should probably just stop moaning, big strapping lad like me can manage 40lbs surely...

colourofsound

@RiftAmps Is all about the Princeton Amp with 12" speakers.

richardhomer

How about replacing the speaker in the DRRI with a Neodymium one to save weight?

RandallFlagg

How about a Morgan PR12? Down in size but up in price! Has a 12" Celestion and a beefier output transformer, has higher clean headroom and generally sounds more muscular than a Fender Princeton but is deffo the Princeton sound with a superb spring reverb but sadly no trem.

Telejester

would a princeton with 12 inch spkr cure the horrendous farting out of the ones with 10 inch spkr ?

ICBM

It helps a lot, yes - although a beefier 10" speaker also does.

The other thing that will help is the 'Stokes mod', which means moving the supply to the phase inverter up one node on the power supply chain, which increases the clean headroom and tightens the overdrive up a bit.

I would also second richardhomer's suggestion of a neodymium speaker - the Jensen Tornado sounds really good in a Princeton so I expect it would in a Deluxe too, although I haven't tried it.

menamestom

Telejester said:

would a princeton with 12 inch spkr cure the horrendous farting out of the ones with 10 inch spkr ?

The farting is the specific stock speaker, not so much the size of the speaker.  A 10 inch Ragin Cajun doesn't do it at all.  OT upgrade helps as well, the stock OT is not the beefiest, mine has the TO20 installed and the bass is clean and bold.

Some people may like the stock tranny, mushy bass is pat of the classic Princeton recipe.

noisepolluter

ICBM said:

I would also second richardhomer's suggestion of a neodymium speaker - the Jensen Tornado sounds really good in a Princeton so I expect it would in a Deluxe too, although I haven't tried it.

How would you say the Tornado sounds compared to the Jensen C12N and C12K, which are the other Jensen speakers I’m familiar with? In the end I found the former to be a bit harsh and beamy (though the Blue Junior that housed it would no doubt have had a bearing - not heard it in DRRI but imagine it would have bats dropping out of the rafters), and in the Deluxe reverb I found the C12K to be a bit dark and stodgy until the amp was wound up.

I’ve found the Cannabis Rex to be the best balance for the amp so far -both in terms of clear, balanced voicing and consistent performance at different volumes. I guess those are the qualities I’d be looking for in a neo speaker - responsive, clear but not shrill. How would you say the Tornado fares? (I’ve also been reading up on Eminence Lil Texas which I gather is brighter, though seems to get generally good write ups)

ICBM

To be clear, I've only heard the Tornado in a Princeton not a Deluxe, but I'm fairly familiar with the other Jensens so I have a reasonable idea - the Tornado is definitely not as spiky as the C12N or quite as bassy, it's smoother but also clearer, if that makes sense - the C12N has a slight roughness to the tone. Compared to the C12K I would say it's a more similar voicing but again clearer. There are now several different versions of the Tornado too, I've only heard the original 100.

The sound samples on the Jensen website are pretty accurate, I think. https://www.jensentone.com/jet_series/12_tornado_classic_100

JonHosker

Without derailing this thread...could recommend me a main stage drive pedal for my Princeton type (Carr Sportsman) amp?
Ta Jon

noisepolluter

JonHosker said:

Without derailing this thread...could recommend me a main stage drive pedal for my Princeton type (Carr Sportsman) amp?
Ta Jon

If it’s low to medium gain you’re after, I’d recommend trying the Liquid Sunshine for blackface type amps. It works extremely well with a boost or compressor in front of it too.

MartinB

ICBM said:

It helps a lot, yes - although a beefier 10" speaker also does.

The other thing that will help is the 'Stokes mod', which means moving the supply to the phase inverter up one node on the power supply chain, which increases the clean headroom and tightens the overdrive up a bit.

I've seen a few people caution that the Stokes mod can stress the power transformer by increasing the current draw due to the increased headroom.  Have you ever found this to be an issue?  I'd thought about trying it on my Princeton Reverb clone, but held off due to some of the warnings.  Although as you say, a sturdier 10" goes a long way towards tightening things up too - I've got an Eminence Copperhead in mine. 

ICBM

MartinB said:

I've seen a few people caution that the Stokes mod can stress the power transformer by increasing the current draw due to the increased headroom.  Have you ever found this to be an issue?

You aren't increasing the current draw at all, just raising the point of breakup - the increase in headroom is purely because the phase inverter doesn't clip too soon, rather than because the power output is increased. The maximum current draw will be exactly the same.

MartinB

ICBM said:

MartinB said:

I've seen a few people caution that the Stokes mod can stress the power transformer by increasing the current draw due to the increased headroom.  Have you ever found this to be an issue?

You aren't increasing the current draw at all, just raising the point of breakup - the increase in headroom is purely because the phase inverter doesn't clip too soon, rather than because the power output is increased. The maximum current draw will be exactly the same.

I guess the warnings are based on the assumption that the PI clipping is a limiting factor on the output of the amp, which may not be the case.  And there certainly seem to be plenty of people who have carried out the mod without issues.  I don't have a pressing need to tweak anything on that amp at the moment, but I might give the Stokes mod a shot next time I have the chassis out. 

strtdv

I'd make the change in a heartbeat. To my years the Princeton is the sweeter sounding amp by a fair margin

Chris_J

I swapped the speaker in my 65 Reissue Princeton to a 10 inch Celestion Gold and the output transformer to an Allen Amps T020. It sounds superb with higher headroom and tighter bass than standard. It doesn't fart out at all now, at the volumes I play at atleast.

p90fool

I quite like the Princeton fartiness in small doses, but I removed most of it with a Ragin' Cajun, which also made it much louder. 

knuckleberryfinn

The Princeton Reverb distorts less smoothly than the Deluxe Reverb, which from my experience is a result of the difference in phase inverters.  I made a blackface pre-amp into 5E3 power amp (cathodyne PI and cathode biased 6V6s) which sounded incredible clean and breaking up, but cranked it lost smoothness and definition (as the Princeton Reverb and Tweed Deluxe both do too).  I rewired the PI to a long tailed pair, and behold: smooth and lovely distortion (a ridiculous amount of it).  But the cleans weren't as nice.  All in my opinion, of course.