Band Hospitality Rider - Help please?

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hasslehamhassleham Frets: 97
edited November 13 in Live
I'm trying to write a rider for my function band. We currently use the Musicians Union standard contract but up to now we haven't bothered with a rider. We want to start using one next year to ensure that we get suitable accommodation + food/refreshments etc.

So I started writing the rider in a very formal way to match the language in the contract but the singer came along and said it was too serious and should be more friendly and changed it all.

I just wondered if anyone has a rider for their own band that they wouldn't mind sharing,so that I can compare the language/formality of it?

Thanks.
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  • I liked what Snails Pace Slim said about The Hamsters contract: "We don't want a rider. If we want food, we'll get sandwiches". Thing about riders seems to be the rider costs you a lot more than you'd spend on what you actually need.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
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  • hasslehamhassleham Frets: 97
    edited November 14
    @Phil_aka_Pip ;;
    I partially agree with that, which is why we've not bothered with a rider up to now. However we have a big booking enquiry for next year which is 6 hours drive away so we require accommodation overnight. There is nothing on the contract about accommodation so we need a rider for this particular gig to ensure that we have the agreement in writing. This is to cover us in the event of a disagreement with the client and also just to ensure transparency between us and them about what is expected.


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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 1361
    Personally, I'd factor it into the price and make my own arrangements.

    R.
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  • BBBluesBBBlues Frets: 130
    hassleham said:
    @Phil_aka_Pip ;
    I partially agree with that, which is why we've not bothered with a rider up to now. However we have a big booking for next year which is 6 hours drive away so we require accommodation overnight. There is nothing on the contract about accommodation so we need a rider for this particular gig to ensure that we have the agreement in writing. This is to cover us in the event of a disagreement with the client and also just to ensure transparency between us and them about what is expected.


    If I'd booked a band at an agreed price and then they came back with a rider which included extra accommodation costs I'd probably be a bit a bit confused - if it's not in the contract then do you have a right to accommodation costs? From their perspective it doesn't matter where you travel from. They provide the ££ in the contract and you play the gig - the rest is band management details, where the costs fall on you I'm afraid.
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  • FiftyshadesofjayFiftyshadesofjay Frets: 365
    edited November 14
    I'm going to disagree here. In my function band we ask for water, soft drinks and food as standard. We also request a dressing room. Don't normally ask for accommodation. 

    In my experience you're a lot better off getting the venue to sort these things as most venues are in the middle of nowhere and rarely have shops nearby or if they do it's a struggle time wise to sort your own food. Trust me, travelling for 3 hours then playing all night without food or drink is no fun. 

    This is all specified in our contract via the agent. 
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  • Keep it simple - sandwiches, fruit, biscuits and something to drink (water, coke, coffee etc). No one paying 1k+ will mind grabbing a couple of Tesco meal deals. 

    Obviously remember to state any dietary requirements, though if you have anything more complex than vegetarian I’d strongly suggest taking your own food (coeliac speaking from experience!)
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  • @BBBlues ;
    They haven't booked us yet. The contract isnt signed because I haven't sent them the contract because I haven't got a rider to attach to the contract!  :)

    The client has already said that they are happy to provide accommodation. I didn't have to ask for it. 

    Also, we don't usually ask for accommodation or anything else, which is why this gig requires a rider to ensure there are no hiccups when we get there.

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  • BBBluesBBBlues Frets: 130
    edited November 14
    hassleham said:
    @BBBlues ;;;;;;
    They haven't booked us yet. The contract isnt signed because I haven't sent them the contract because I haven't got a rider to attach to the contract!  

    The client has already said that they are happy to provide accommodation. I didn't have to ask for it. 

    Also, we don't usually ask for accommodation or anything else, which is why this gig requires a rider to ensure there are no hiccups when we get there.

    My bad - I misunderstood where you were at in the process. Knowing where you're at now, the bit where you say "we have a big booking" is confusing.
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  • @hassleham best wishes for getting it sorted. Have you asked the MU?
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  • @BBBlues Sorry, I will edit it!
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  • Cheers @Phil_aka_Pip. I was hoping to find a template or some guidance on their website but couldn't find anything. 
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 1955
    We tend to change the rider for each event. If the gig is in a town with feeding facilities around then we can cope with eating without smashing up the cost to the customer. But a wedding out in the sticks where you will be from 10:00am setup until 1.00 am the next morning means that we require catering and hot food will be required. Stage sizes, dressing rooms etc. are all good to request but you want to have that as a general line and negotiate. Insisting on two rooms 12x12 with arm chairs, a table, power and mirrors is OK, but hear what they can offer too.
    So put in your desirables and negotiate, but don't compromise on essentials.
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  • bob21bob21 Frets: 122
    I currently work for a production company, but have previously worked for venues etc, so have seen a lot of riders!

    Standard format is usually...



    Promoter agrees to provide/Band require:

    1 dressing room, with lockable door, suitable in size for 5 persons, with power and seating. Key to be given to Tour Manager at Load In.

    Beverages:
    1 crate premium lager (stella, san miguel)
    1 bottle Red Wine
    12 bottles water
    Plus quantity of ice and cups.

    Catering:
    We are a touring party of 6, and will require catering from load in to load out. This will usually consist of lunch and dinner. AT LEAST ONE MEAL MUST BE HOT.
    Our party comprises one vegetarian and one person with a cheese allergy. 
    All meals should be served at catering, unless there is no facility, then all meals should be served in the dressing room. Catering schedule will be provided to Tour Manager at load in. Please provide soft drinks and hot drinks for meal times ADDITIONAL to the beverages listed above..




    Or something like that..

    A couple of comments on riders:

    Writing something on a rider does not mean you will get it. Regardless of whether the venue have 'agreed' to your rider or not, there is an attitude of not worrying too much about the rider in some venues..!
    If it's important (like accommodation) either put it in the contract, or put a clause in the contract about agreeing to provide your rider (and probably specifically mention catering and accommodation)

    In general with riders - be reasonable, be clear. The more reasonable you are, the more likely you are to get it (this especially goes for technical riders!!! if you ask for 7 wedges and I had planned six, you might get it.. If you ask for every microphone to be Neumann/DPA etc - i'm going to laugh at you and give you a standard Shure package). Always be willing to take substitutions unless it is an absolutely show-breaker.
    Be clear - ask for what you want, don't put "we'd like a couple of beers" as that is exactly what you'll get. Give a quantity, and give some options!


    Hope that helps..!
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  • @ESBlonde ;
    @bob21 ;

    Super helpful, thank you!

    Regarding the language used, do you should be formally worded (like a contract) or informal and friendly?

    As I said in the OP, I tried to keep it formal and to the point but the singer changed it and made it a bit long winded.
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 1955
    I'd go with the likes of:

    The artists will require a comfortable area separate from guests/public where they can dress, prepare and wait for the scheduled performance time. The band consists of X members plus a Y crew. The room should have adequate seating, a table and be securly lockable so that personal things can be safe while the performance takes place. Use of toilet facilities will also need to be considerred.

    That gives the customer a chance to make an offer. chances are they hadn't thought about it before. I had Used chicken sheds to hotel suits and the brides parents bedroom.


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  • @hassleham ,what about theTechnical Rider?  Is that sorted?
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  • @Handsome_Chris ;
    We don't have a technical rider as we provide all of our own equipment. I guess our only tech requirement is suitable power supply to the stage, which I added to this rider.
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  • hassleham said:
    @Handsome_Chris ;
    We don't have a technical rider as we provide all of our own equipment. I guess our only tech requirement is suitable power supply to the stage, which I added to this rider.
    That's it then.  How do you specify the suitable power supply to ensure that everything is correct?
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  • @Handsome_Chris ;
    I've just put "4 x 13A mains sockets or suitable generator", although we've managed with less before. 
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  • I can't find it now, after just looking for it, but Eric Bell (IIRC) used to have a piccy of a stage layout where band equipment used to be and where power supplies and Mic stuff had to be on that stage.

    Something like this.


    Please pardon me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs.
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  • bob21bob21 Frets: 122

    @hassleham ;
    if it's for venues and people that see riders all the time.. word it exactly like my example, that is the standard..
    if it's for people that have never seen a rider before - i'd probably tone it down a bit and make it a bit more 'ask-y' than 'demand-y'!

    FWIW - if you don't require any production/backline, don't include it in the rider at all.. the Bride & Groom don't give a monkeys whether bass is SR or SL..!

    (however, there is a special circle of hell reserved for those who *should* be providing a technical rider, and either don't, or provide one so out of date as to be useless..!!)

    I think that specification for power is fine - and reasonable. Unless you're talking about real power (32a single phase and up, really) - there's no point getting specific, as at that point you're just going to get what the venue has got..!
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  • Seems to me your getting a bit bogged down in terms. Just put in your contract for the gig client to provide suitable accommodation and a hot meal for the band. A rider as most of them are, is a wish list, unless or in practical terms a bunch of requests outside the contract which may or may not be agreed to. If it’s actually in the contract you sign agreeing to play then everyone is clear about minimum requirements.
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • hasslehamhassleham Frets: 97
    edited November 17
    @maltingsaudio ;;
    I should've made it clearer: The MU contract states that any rider attached to the contract and signed becomes part of the contract. We're not bothered about a 'wish list' style rider, just an extension of the contract that ensure we get what we need accommodation and food wise so that the client is clear on our requirements and there are no upsets later on.

    It's sorted now anyway! Thanks everyone for your input
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