Middle pickup underneath Telecaster pickguard

Zoolooter

Thinking of installing a Strat middle pickup underneath the pickguard on a tele build I'm doing. Anyone tried this with success? if I do it, I'll be doing a fresh route so the depth issue won't be a problem. 

I've got a fairly low output BK tele bridge and a Firebird original spec neck going in. The reason for underneath the pickguard is not to mess with the overall look. I was also thinking of 5 way wiring.

Its the old 'trying the get a strat'ish tone out of a tele' issue. I'd buy a strat, but just don't like the aesthetics.

WezV

The big issue is getting it to sound good.  It’s quite far from the strings.  It generally sounds bad and is hard to balance with the others.

maybe if you had something specially made it might work 

guitars4you

fender custom shop did it on a Stealth Tele. I've not played one, but try Google for info and reports

WezV

guitars4you said:

fender custom shop did it on a Stealth Tele. I've not played one, but try Google for info and reports

They did some stealth esquires too... but it’s an aesthetic choice rather than a tonal one

Funkfingers

My recollection of video demonstrations for the Fender C.S. Masterbuilt Stealth Esquires is one of disappointment. 

Zoolooter said:

Its the old 'trying the get a strat'ish tone out of a tele' issue. I'd buy a strat, but just don't like the aesthetics.

In my opinion, you just answered your own question. Your guitar build might well end up sounding interesting but there is a bunch of reasons why it is not going to properly nail the sounds of a Stratocaster.

In your position, I would rout for neck and centre position Firebird humbuckers. 

richardhomer

The Jerry Donahue Tele achieved pseudo Strat tones with just two pick-ups.

I’m sure there’ll be a wiring diagram on line somewhere....

dazzajl

I’ve seen quite a few guitars made to hold a stealth pickup, even owned one with the rout under the pickgaurd myself but I’ve never read about or heard of anyone being particularly happy with the results. 

A shame as its a lovely idea 

olafgarten

richardhomer said:

The Jerry Donahue Tele achieved pseudo Strat tones with just two pick-ups.

I’m sure there’ll be a wiring diagram on line somewhere....

This page is pretty detailed.

http://www.redherring-tonebones.com/jerry-donahue-telecaster-wiring-2/

Zoolooter

Thinking about it a bit more the biggest issue would be with whoever makes the custom middle strat pickup. Meaning as much as they do the calculations and maybe charge the mags more or whatever, because its such distance, and then the issue of balancing it with the pickups I already have...hmmmm. I'm now imagining it to be a big game of trial and error with getting the spec right for the middle. 

ICBM

I did a stealth Esquire. Even with an overwound Strat pickup, it was too quiet relative to the bridge pickup, and sounded shit.

A middle pickup will only be worse because the string movement there is smaller.

If you really want a pseudo-Strat sound from a Tele without the visual intrusion of a middle pickup, the Jerry Donahue wiring is the way to go.

CasperCaster

I'd think the JD wiring (sometimes incorrectly referred to as Half-Out-of-Phase, or HOoP) would be the way to go, but the Firebird neck pickup is going to confuse things a little, as the JD uses a Strat pickup in the neck. At least Firebird pickups are fairly bright, but you'll still probably need to mess with the value of the capacitor used in the circuit.

Its a very simple idea and simply puts the neck pickup electrically out-of-phase with the bridge pickup, but with a bass cut in series with the out-of-phase neck pickup. The bass cut is simply a capacitor. When the in-phase bridge pickup is combined with the out-of-phase neck pickup there is no bass content in the out-of-phase neck pickup signal (which would normally cancel the bass component of the in-phase bridge pickup), hence the combined sound is not thin and scratchy in the way that electrically out-of-phase pickup combinations usually sound. The value (uF) of the capacitor sets the corner frequency of the bass cut filter.

The idea for the circuit is quite old, and it's odd that Fender and Jerry Donahue managed to keep such a mystique around the circuit for such a long time - I think the 'controlled degree of phase shift' BS which they used in their marketing literature has quite a lot to do with that! Anyway, Bill Lawrence has been quoted as saying he used the idea in the sixties, and certainly implemented it in a commercial setting on the Gibson L6S from 1973. That guitar uses a 0.02uF capacitor, whilst Fenders circuit uses a 0.01uF capacitor, so that should give you some idea of values to play with.

CasperCaster

@guitars4you - Fender tried it long before the Custom Shop Tele's and Esquires!

1965's Marauder made it as far as that years catalogue, but never actually made it into production. Four pickups hidden under the pickguard, a Jaguar/offset style body and controls, a Strat trem system, block markers on the neck.....

guitars4you

WezV said:

guitars4you said:

fender custom shop did it on a Stealth Tele. I've not played one, but try Google for info and reports

They did some stealth esquires too... but it’s an aesthetic choice rather than a tonal one

I've never played one - was it there as a 'dummy coil' for hum cancelling purposes, or to work like a Strat for 'out of phase' character that you'd find on position 2/4 of the Strat

WezV

guitars4you said:

WezV said:

guitars4you said:

fender custom shop did it on a Stealth Tele. I've not played one, but try Google for info and reports

They did some stealth esquires too... but it’s an aesthetic choice rather than a tonal one

I've never played one - was it there as a 'dummy coil' for hum cancelling purposes, or to work like a Strat for 'out of phase' character that you'd find on position 2/4 of the Strat

No, I think we are talking about the same guitars.  Just a hidden neck pickup

Zoolooter

Or this... and start a new project

http://guitar-auctions.co.uk/portfolio-post/lot-531-guitarbuild-co-uk-two-piece-telecaster-style-guitar-body/

Alegree

I wonder if it'd be technically feasible to do something like this with an active middle pickup. You could retain a true single character and have a really powerful amplification of it to match the volume.

Funkfingers

Decide for yourself.