Arpeggios...in blues... - why? what? how?

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KiniooKinioo Frets: 15
OK,

Recently, started looking into arpeggios more closely...

Trying to get few basic chords (A7, D7, E7 etc.) in different positions on the fret board, but...

1) why should I ever consider to use them in i.e. blues soloing ??

2) What is the benefit knowing these shapes (again in relation to blues soling/playing and also to guitar playing in general) ?

3) If the answer to the above questions is positive - what is the best way to practice/memorize arpeggios ?

Many thanks,

Chris 

PS.
So far, I found it very, very interesting working arpeggios/breaking down guitar chords and try to find them on the piano keyboard and vice versa (all these minor & major chords) - very enjoyable.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 8993
    edited November 2017
    I use dominant arpeggios just as much as minor pentatonic licks. Great for riffing as well as useful in solos.

    Learning: same as anything I guess. Ascending and descending slowly with a metronome until you can do it without looking at a diagram or the fingerboard. Play games - invent riffs or licks that use the device you're learning. Move it around the fingerboard so that you can do a I IV V in the 5th position, and in the same key in the 7th or 12th position, for example.

    HTH

    edit don't confuse guitar chord shapes with arpeggios. the latter are closely voiced chords strung out in single notes ie the notes are in strict ascending or descending sequence eg R 3 5 b7 ... whereas chords can be voiced R 5 b7 3 or some other variation
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  • Why - Arpeggios are great for outlining chords as they contain the chord tones (roots thirds fifiths and sevenths) from dominant chord shapes. Also breaks up pentatonic soloing which can get predictable, repetitive and boring.

    What - Can link with chord shapes on the fretboard, I'm a big fan of the CAGED system and it helps me learn my notes and interval relationships on the fretboard

    How - Think of the chord it replicates, e.g a Dom 7th arpeggio will contain the notes from an E shaped barre chord (that's one of 5 shapes you could it on the fretboard). Use a metronome with all subdivisions e.g quarter notes/eighths/sixteenths/triplets.
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  • BradBrad Frets: 209
    edited November 2017
    @Kinioo ;;;

    1. You should consider using them because arpeggios accurately outline the underlying harmony of a tune. They help tie improv together and give a sense of harmonic purpose and direction to solo. If you take away the accompaniment, you should still be able to hear what the chord changes are in a solo. It's not the greatest example (or playing and please excuse the singing!) but hopefully this will demonstrate a little what I'm talking about. It's a Jazz Blues in F just using arpeggios.

     


    Arpeggios are good for creating extensions in improv to create different sounds. playing an Em arp over a C bass note/chord creates a CMaj7 sound. Playing a G arp or Em7 arp over C gives a Maj9 sound etc.

    2. The benefit of knowing these shapes is just like anything, another tool to have at your disposal and to have a better chance of realising the sounds you have in your head in a musical context and to combine them with things you already know.

    3. It's a LOT of work but the best way to learn arpeggios is to get them all down between frets 1-5. This will give a really thorough basis for transferring them around the neck and to different keys.

    Next is to do the continuous arpeggio exercise. Take a chord progression, say a blues in A and stay in one area of the neck, perhaps between the 5th and 9th frets. Start on the lowest available note of the first arp (A7 the note A on the 5th fret of low E string). You will play a straight 8th note rhythm, so 8 notes of an arpeggio per bar. Once you have reached the 8th note of the A7 arp of the first bar (G on 8th fret of B string), you will change to the next note available in the next arpeggio D7 (which will be the note A on the high E string 5th fret).

    Now this A note is the starting point for your 8 notes of D7. Start there, go up to C (8th fret) and decent the D7 arpeggio where you'll reach the note F# (fret 4 D string). From there you'll carry on descending through the next arpeggio which is A7 and so on. I'll try and knock up a vid to better demonstrate if this doesn't quite make sense...   

    @Phil_aka_Pip are you talking from a learning perspective? Because I'd slightly disagree that arpeggios are in strict ascending or descending 
    sequence. Arpeggios are chords just played melodically and can be played as R 5 b7 3. There are inversions of arpeggios, open arpeggios and the like.
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  • KiniooKinioo Frets: 15
    Thanks guys. Sounds like it will be beneficial, so may dig in a bit deeper. 
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 2014
    Arpeggios are a good way of moving between chords, and between those blues cliches that we all play. Something that a lot of players miss is the semitones step that take them from one chord to the next, particularly the I to the IV. It adds a lot of harmonic interest.
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  • @Brad no I'm using the term in its strictest sense (I was brought up on classical music), and AFAIK that's what it means. You can of course play R 5 b7 3 if you want, and if you did you'd be using notes out of one or more arpeggio patterns (whatever is physically convenient) but for example playing strings  6 5 4 3 2 1 while holding down an E-shape major or minor bar chord does not give you an arpeggio. Well, it just so happens that strings 4 3 2 1 do, because of the way that chord shape is voiced. Doesn't work with A and D shape chords though.

    You are quite right arpeggios can be though of as having inversions, eg 3 5 R, but I tend to think of those as inversions of a triad - which naturally you can arpeggiate.

    For the best definition, see Eric Taylor's AB Guide to Music Theory.

    :)
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  • You can learn to play Arpeggios in the strict sense of the word , but you risk simply learning them as patterns. You'll acquire greater freedom if you learn the notes in each chord. You can then sequence them in anyway you want, and anywhere on the fretboard.
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  • BradBrad Frets: 209
    @Phil_aka_Pip right I think I get where you're coming from, which is from a classical perspective, whereas I'm looking at it from from a Jazz/Blues/Rock angle :smile: I referenced the AB Guide and I dunno, that explanation I'm sure is perfectly suffice for classical music but for me, it doesn't tell the whole story for Blues soloing using arpeggios as per the OP.

    Regarding an E-shape maj/min chord, if I were to hold that chord down and pick the notes individually I wouldn't say I was playing an arpeggio as such, more that I am 'arpeggiating' the chord if you like. But if I was to isolate those same notes individually and play them melodically then I would see that as fair game for being seen as an arpeggio.

    Personally speaking, I don't see an A7 chord and arpeggio as different things. Taking an E-shape 7th chord, I'd see R 5 b7 3 as coming from that place but i've just jumbled the intervals up as I see fit from a melodic and rhythmic perspective.  

    @ArchtopDave has articulately got to the heart of what I'm trying to say :smile: 

       
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  • Agreed @ArchtopDave learn the patterns first. Then learn what to do with them :) sim @Brad
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • vizviz Frets: 4950
    You can learn to play Arpeggios in the strict sense of the word , but you risk simply learning them as patterns. You'll acquire greater freedom if you learn the notes in each chord. You can then sequence them in anyway you want, and anywhere on the fretboard.
    Yep, strictly speaking arpeggii are the chordal notes played one after another, ascending or descending, like a harpist would. If you let all the notes ring (like a slow strum) you get a spread chord or bell chord (or arpeggiated chord). What you're starting to talk about when you shuffle the order of the notes is tunes. 

    Arps are good for learning the notes and of course sweep-picking uses them, and a lot of piano music uses them. But of course not sticking rigidly to the up-and-down approach is good for melodic writing.
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  • aord43aord43 Frets: 285
    I can never remember stuff like "R 5 b7 3".    I'm impressed by people that know all of that off the top of their head.
    I never even remember which ones are in the minor pentatonic, and the only scales I know are that plus major pent (as a side effect of being able to use the same shapes in different places) plus the blues scale (add another note...true to form I always forget what it is called).
    So arpeggios, and modes too, they are just more and more stuff I won't remember.  Possibly by seeing things as shapes would help, but I hold little hope!
    CAGED I can get, that's using the shapes I already know and linking them together.
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  • aord43 said:
    ... stuff like "R 5 b7 3".    I'm impressed by people that know all of that off the top of their head.

    If it is "native language" to me, then the credit is due to the people who taught me. Thanks be to childhood music tutors, and Alan Limbrick at The Guitar Institute for finally dropping all the pieces into their rightful places.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 351
    Arpeggios will outline the changes better .....its just another option to vary things a bit for eg in blues in A when it goes to the E7 try playing E7 Apr and you will hear.... then you have diminised arps that work well ..especially before moving to the 4 chord
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