Impact of weight of machineheads?

stickyfiddle

I'm putting in a stewmac order for a couple of bits, and thinking about some new tuners for my HD28. At the moment it's got chrome Grover Rotomatics, which are absolutely fine, but at the very least I'd switch to nickel. 

Just wondering if anyone has switched from Rotos (or other heavy tuners) to something lightweight like a Sta-tite or Waverly, and what impact it had on tone. I like the idea of open backed for a bit of vintage vibe, but only if it won't change the tone for the worse. 

I suspect it's a question of "it depends on the specific guitar" (and a hefty dose of "not broke, don't fix") but just thought i'd check in wth you lot...

Lewy

Have seen some very credible players say they noticed a difference after switching to lighter tuners. I have a set of Waverleys destined to replace the 70s Rotomatics on my Mossman at some point. Requires some reaming for the Waverley bushings so it’s not something I’m going to try myself.

ICBM

It definitely makes a difference in my experience. I had an old Gibson J-45 which came to me fitted with Schaller M6s, which I replaced with modern Gibson tulip-key 'Kluson-style' ones (about half the weight), and it improved the sound a lot. After I sold it the next owner put it back to three-on-a-strip Klusons (lighter still), and it didn't sound as good.

So it's not exactly predictable and there may be an 'optimum weight', it's not simply that lighter tuners are better or vice versa.

TimmyO

not tuners, but on ym good guitar I can hear the difference between a lighter and a heavier capo. I was very surprised.

stickyfiddle

TimmyO said:

not tuners, but on ym good guitar I can hear the difference between a lighter and a heavier capo. I was very surprised.

I don't think that's unreasonable. My G7th (historically my favourite capo) makes my HD28 sound rubbish, but an old Shubb sounds brilliant. 

TimmyO

The G7th *Nashville* capo is soooo light - sounds better than the Performance 2 to me

Teyeplayer

I’ve done the Grover to Kluson swap on my Maton and it’s made a huge difference in terms of neck dive and has I feel opened the sound up a fair bit. It’s almost less direct and a little more airy with more balanced trebles. I prefer it, whether it’s better is entirely subjective. 

BigLicks67

I have a set of Waverley style open gear tuner on my Martin OM which are made by Gotoh. Generally the reviews for these tuners are poor online, but the tuning stability is absolutely superb on mine. The guitar is a feather weight anyway so I don't know how much the tuners help in this regard.

AliGorie

never bothered changing anything on guitars I've bought (expt) strings (occasionally).
But then I've never bought a guitar and sold it though I have given a couple away to younger players
who deserved a 'better' instrument.
I'm I missing out on all this 'fine tuning' ?.

ICBM

AliGorie said:

never bothered changing anything on guitars I've bought (expt) strings (occasionally).
But then I've never bought a guitar and sold it though I have given a couple away to younger players
who deserved a 'better' instrument.
I'm I missing out on all this 'fine tuning' ?.

Maybe, maybe not. I tend not to do it a lot - it's mostly just observation from doing things that were for other reasons (eg I changed the Schallers just because they were really ugly) or working on customers' guitars.

Another interesting improvement I made to a guitar was to simply string it properly, using the same strings, when it had come in for "needs new tuners because it won't stay in tune". As well as then not needing new machineheads, someone on the other side of the shop immediately asked why it sounded so much better .

Moe_Zambeek

TimmyO said:

The G7th *Nashville* capo is soooo light - sounds better than the Performance 2 to me

That's interesting, I find I prefer my performance2 to the springloaded nashville. They definitely sound a little different.

guitarfishbay

ICBM said:

AliGorie said:

never bothered changing anything on guitars I've bought (expt) strings (occasionally).
But then I've never bought a guitar and sold it though I have given a couple away to younger players
who deserved a 'better' instrument.
I'm I missing out on all this 'fine tuning' ?.

Maybe, maybe not. I tend not to do it a lot - it's mostly just observation from doing things that were for other reasons (eg I changed the Schallers just because they were really ugly) or working on customers' guitars.

Another interesting improvement I made to a guitar was to simply string it properly, using the same strings, when it had come in for "needs new tuners because it won't stay in tune". As well as then not needing new machineheads, someone on the other side of the shop immediately asked why it sounded so much better .

Was that break angle related?

I find on bolt-ons I usually play about with shimming until it feels right to me, I think it also can afftect the attack of the note though not necessarily the general meat of the tone.

TimmyO

Moe_Zambeek said:

TimmyO said:

The G7th *Nashville* capo is soooo light - sounds better than the Performance 2 to me

That's interesting, I find I prefer my performance2 to the springloaded nashville. They definitely sound a little different.

may just be that my guitar that likes it or vice versa. I certainly prefer the operation of the Performance 2 so use that one on my cheap guitar which doesn't seem to much care 

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

Was that break angle related?

I don't think so, I think it was that when it came in "not staying in tune", it was because the owner did the 'poke the end of the string into the hole then wind the entire string onto the post by hand' method, leaving a huge randomly overlapping loose coil on the post. The guitar - a Lowden! - sounded strangely woolly and ratty.

I simply strung it properly using the 'half back turn and lock under' method with the minimum wrap on the posts and tuned it up again, and it instantly sounded deep and clear like a Lowden should. I think the owner was a bit shocked as well… he'd "always done it like that" of course.

Obviously it's a slightly different thing than the mass of the machineheads, but it does make it very clear that the tone can be affected quite drastically by things that aren't in the 'sounding' part of the string.

guitarfishbay

Interesting. Makes sense