Existing client recommendation/referral

Lestratcaster

Flink_Poyd said:

She sounds like the sort of person who would go into a wholesalers and try to buy 1 box for the same rate that you buy a pallet load for.
 Dont de-value your time and knowledge for someone whos a new customer and quite frankly sounds like more trouble than the moneys worth at full price, never mind at a discount.

Yes, I don't think they seem to understand from next year it'll be 10 years teaching and I hold a degree in professional music performance. To think I considered offering them the same rate as the existing client would be me being nice but I don't think I'm going to do it.

ESBlonde

If you don' value your time the customer certainly won't. Stand your ground and offer lessons 2-11 at a discounted rate. Tell them if they remain good customers you may well leave the rate low for the future. If anyone deserves a discount it'' existing customer for the referral.

TheBigDipper

Just to remind you, @Lestratcaster - this PITA parent was recommended to you by an existing customer. If the PITA values the opinion of the existing customer, you have nothing to prove regarding your value as a teacher. They haven't come to you because the existing customer said you're cheap - it's because they said you're good. 

Don't reduce your prices one iota to get business. In a service industry (like you are) that is the slippery path to working for free and having to work stacking shelves to make ends meet. You're not selling products that can be produced in high volumes at lower unit costs - every hour you teach is an hour you'll never get back.

If the PITA can't afford you, then they can't afford you. Maybe they can afford 4 lessons every 5 weeks at your price instead of 5 cheaper lessons with someone else. 

Stick to your guns, fella!  Just remind yourself your fee is fair because you're good - and in the long term that's better value for the customer. Build a reputation for quality teaching at a fair price to you - which means your students will learn more and get more from being with you rather than someone else. 

chillidoggy

VimFuego said:

erm, why would a new client expect a discount? tell em to go fuck themselves, but politely. 

You mean something like - "Excuse me, please don't think I'm being too forward, but would you mind awfully if I told you to go fuck yourself?"

Ravenous

chillidoggy said:

VimFuego said:

erm, why would a new client expect a discount? tell em to go fuck themselves, but politely. 

You mean something like - "Excuse me, please don't think I'm being too forward, but would you mind awfully if I told you to go fuck yourself?"

Well, that was in the small print for most of June's election manifestos.

Lestratcaster

TheBigDipper said:

Just to remind you, @Lestratcaster - this PITA parent was recommended to you by an existing customer. If the PITA values the opinion of the existing customer, you have nothing to prove regarding your value as a teacher. They haven't come to you because the existing customer said you're cheap - it's because they said you're good. 

Don't reduce your prices one iota to get business. In a service industry (like you are) that is the slippery path to working for free and having to work stacking shelves to make ends meet. You're not selling products that can be produced in high volumes at lower unit costs - every hour you teach is an hour you'll never get back.

If the PITA can't afford you, then they can't afford you. Maybe they can afford 4 lessons every 5 weeks at your price instead of 5 cheaper lessons with someone else. 

Stick to your guns, fella!  Just remind yourself your fee is fair because you're good - and in the long term that's better value for the customer. Build a reputation for quality teaching at a fair price to you - which means your students will learn more and get more from being with you rather than someone else. 

Cheers mate, I really do need to grow some cunt skin it seems. 5 years ago I would probably have baulked and said “yeah you can have the same rate as them...” and they would have got away with murder. 

I’ve been guilty in the past for being a soft touch so need to be a bit more stern as I’m quite experienced now. 

Will be reporting back after tomorrow’s trial lesson. Will be an interesting battled armed with all my arguments.

Paul_C

It's always difficult to raise prices, I did mine a little while ago and it's been very quiet since !

As this time of year can be hugely variable I'm hoping the price rise is nothing to do with it, but I find that it can be quite nerve-wracking with some people when you start to discuss price.
I do recall one lady saying (after I'd told her the job would cost £25) "what about £20?" and I replied "You can pay me £20 but you'll only get £20's worth of work for that" which amused her enough to agree to £25.

I do occasionally do jobs cheaply, or even for free, but that's something that's up to me, and usually for someone who's been a regular customer.

I'd stick to your guns unless you need the money, and say the rate is what it is, take it or leave it. She can get the discount from the guy who recommended her as he's the one paying less than the going rate

mart

Paul_C said:

.... 
I'd stick to your guns unless you need the money, and say the rate is what it is, take it or leave it. ...

This. In my experience it’s best not to argue and give reasons, but to just state your position. If you give any reason then she can try to pick holes in it. As Paul says, the rate is what it is, end of.

FreddieVanHalen

Lestratcaster said:

Cheers mate, I really do need to grow some cunt skin it seems. 5 years ago I would probably have baulked and said “yeah you can have the same rate as them...” and they would have got away with murder. 

I’ve been guilty in the past for being a soft touch so need to be a bit more stern as I’m quite experienced now. 

Will be reporting back after tomorrow’s trial lesson. Will be an interesting battled armed with all my arguments.

You're not being a cunt by setting living wage prices and sticking to them.

The alternative is you have to quit teaching if you can't afford to make a living.

What kind of Mercedes is this PITA parent wafting around in anway? ;-)

Legionreturns

When I first started out, I had a teacher that was the cheapest one in my area that had availability. 

Lessons were at his folks house, in his bedroom. We never once plugged a guitar in, and despite paying for an hour, we always, without fail, started 5 minutes late and finished at least 10 minutes early and I'd occasionally get bumped because he had either band practice or something else on during our weekly slot. When we finished early, he would say something like "Well you've done everything I'd planned, you're obviously a quick learner" 

I'm now with a much more professional tutor, who is flexible, knowledgeable and has a decent studio with good equipment. I pay £7 per hour more, but actually get the full hour. 

So I guess if you want to get into a Dutch auction over your fees you could, but that puts you in the realm of competing with the first guy, not the second. Quality counts. 

Feel free to show her that story if you like. 

TheBigDipper

Oh, one last thing before tomorrow...  The PITA holds the purse strings for their child, but the child is the one who'll be bitching at PITA if they like you but PITA won't pay the going rate. What's known in the trade as "the internal salesperson". Sell to the child, not the PITA parent. 

Lestratcaster

FreddieVanHalen said:

Lestratcaster said:

Cheers mate, I really do need to grow some cunt skin it seems. 5 years ago I would probably have baulked and said “yeah you can have the same rate as them...” and they would have got away with murder. 

I’ve been guilty in the past for being a soft touch so need to be a bit more stern as I’m quite experienced now. 

Will be reporting back after tomorrow’s trial lesson. Will be an interesting battled armed with all my arguments.

You're not being a cunt by setting living wage prices and sticking to them.

The alternative is you have to quit teaching if you can't afford to make a living.

What kind of Mercedes is this PITA parent wafting around in anway? ;-)

I'll let you know after tomorrow haha.

I've always been wary of bad rep around the area, you can go around saying so and so is the best guitar tutor in the world yet very few people will hear about it. Get bad results from your learners or similar negative press and that will spread like wildfire.

But, as mentioned before I hold value to my lessons, and also, if I was to give them the same rate as the old client, word would spread its cheap and whilst I'd get more enquiries, they'd probably be similar to this "PITA parent"!

Lestratcaster

Legionreturns said:

When I first started out, I had a teacher that was the cheapest one in my area that had availability. 

Lessons were at his folks house, in his bedroom. We never once plugged a guitar in, and despite paying for an hour, we always, without fail, started 5 minutes late and finished at least 10 minutes early and I'd occasionally get bumped because he had either band practice or something else on during our weekly slot. When we finished early, he would say something like "Well you've done everything I'd planned, you're obviously a quick learner" 

I'm now with a much more professional tutor, who is flexible, knowledgeable and has a decent studio with good equipment. I pay £7 per hour more, but actually get the full hour. 

So I guess if you want to get into a Dutch auction over your fees you could, but that puts you in the realm of competing with the first guy, not the second. Quality counts. 

Feel free to show her that story if you like. 

I never start late, if someone's late their lesson is cut so the next one can start on time. Always starts on the hour (or on the 30 min if its half past). 

I remember when I first started doing the lessons I wasn't charging very much and whilst I'd get loads of enquiries, many would just be curious as £15-20 meant jack to them. And I'd find they would quite often quit very quickly. Fast forward almost 10 years and I'm charging almost double that, since I surpassed the £30 per hour mark learners started practicing more and I got more respect. Now if I'm told "well this bloke only charges £xx down the road...." I refuse to be drawn into price matching bollocks as I have worked to a good level now as a good quality tutor.

Lestratcaster

TheBigDipper said:

Oh, one last thing before tomorrow...  The PITA holds the purse strings for their child, but the child is the one who'll be bitching at PITA if they like you but PITA won't pay the going rate. What's known in the trade as "the internal salesperson". Sell to the child, not the PITA parent. 

This reminds of an incident a few years back with a similar parent, who brought their child to a trial lesson. I could tell he had a problem withe payment of lessons, saying he would pay for it after its commenced (i.e after 10 lessons) at the discounted rate because "his job paid him in arrears..." We got into a bit of a shouting match and ultimately he sent me an email the following week saying he's "uncomfortable with relentless demands for money, and therefore would not be pursuing further tuition from you..." He signed an agreement the previous week to say all fees must be paid in full prior to lessons. So I don't know where he got that bollocks with paying in arrears from.

So I sense this will be similar, I will be doing everything I can to sell those lessons to the child as they deserve good quality tuition.

To also add, with my existing client they have reached Grade 5 on acoustic guitar passing the first 4 grades with at least a merit since 2013. If that doesn't prove I can produce results I don't know what will.

As I said before I will report back and let you know what happens!

Lestratcaster

And just to make it more funny, I asked what guitar her daughter has, acoustic or electric, she replied "a normal one..."

Fuengi

When I started out on my own in my architecture business I used to see the first client meeting as an opportunity to sell myself. 

Nowadays I see the first meeting as an opportunity to suss out the client to see if I want to with them. 

If I'm in any doubt I won't even quote on the job. 

Phil_aka_Pip

stick to your guns (as others have said)

YOU set the fees, not the customers. I hope you're charging (at least) MU rates.

Lestratcaster

Phil_aka_Pip said:

stick to your guns (as others have said)

YOU set the fees, not the customers. I hope you're charging (at least) MU rates.

Yes I am right in line with the MU rate, which is actually lower than my previous hourly rate when doing single lesson-by-lesson. So if anything they've already got a discount!

FreddieVanHalen

Lestratcaster said:

And just to make it more funny, I asked what guitar her daughter has, acoustic or electric, she replied "a normal one..."

Maybe she thought you asked what kind of daughter she had?

Phil_aka_Pip

Lestratcaster said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

stick to your guns (as others have said)

YOU set the fees, not the customers. I hope you're charging (at least) MU rates.

Yes I am right in line with the MU rate, which is actually lower than my previous hourly rate when doing single lesson-by-lesson. So if anything they've already got a discount!

No reason to cut your price any further then.