Chiropractic

fnpt

So, what's the overall opinion of the forum? Quackery or serious practice?

digitalscream

Quackery. Dangerous, and often sometimes deadly quackery.

(apologies for the link targets, they're the first ones I found for those articles while I'm cooking dinner - there are definitely more reputable ones out there, just Google for 'em)

fnpt

That's what I thought. My soon has scoliosis and the treatment prescribed so far has been to "monitor" it, i.e., nothing. I'm told that if the curve goes above 25 degrees (he is 23 now) we will have to wear a vest which for a 9 yo is extremely limiting and sad. He loves his football and it seems cruelty to stop him from playing without any guaranteed results.

So I have been looking into possible alternative treatments and one that has been mentioned often times is chiropratic but I do share the view that it seems extremely dangerous.

menamestom

I've always thought it to be quackery, as I understand some of the principles certainly are.  That's not to say people haven't and don't have positive reactions to that kind of manipulation, it's not after all completely placebo like Homeopathy.

I wouldn't take my child to one though as there are many documented cases of injury, as stated above.  I would leave it with the experts, time may improve it and I would find that more reassuring than the thought of a heavy handed quack cracking it in to place. 

RaymondLin

Rather than going to chiropractor, see an osteopath.  

AllthegearNoidea

RaymondLin said:

Rather than going to chiropractor, see an osteopath.  

I would agree with this

i have had four spinal operations. The day before my first operation I visited a chiropractor who told me I had no disc issues. He manipulated by back and I was in agony. I could not feel my legs after the manipulation and ended up having emergency surgery. Be very careful with your spine. 

Sporky

They should not be allowed.

At least homeopathy does no direct harm.

fandango

As i understand it, chiropractors work on the bones/joints, whilst oesteopaths work on the muscles. Not exclusively, but thats the gist.

Since chiropractic is alternative/complementary ‘medicine’ it’s not normally available via the NHS. Oestopathy is naturally available vua the NHS.

Best start with one’s GP, and quiz him about osteopathy treatment.

AllthegearNoidea

The best thing I ever did for my back pre surgery was buy a Neil summers back stretcher and his book. 

This is the new version. 

http://backrola.com/story.php

munckee

AllthegearNoidea said:

The best thing I ever did for my back pre surgery was buy a Neil summers back stretcher and his book. 

This is the new version. 

http://backrola.com/story.php

Just checking, you're not Neil Summers right? : )

fnpt

I am not sure osteopathy will help as scoliosis is a curvature of the spine so not a muscular issue. I will look into it nonetheless.

digitalscream

As a general rule - and as someone with back problems and nerve problems in my shoulder - if treatment's not prescribed by my GP and/or a properly-qualified sports physio won't touch it, then there's no way in hell I'm going near a chiropractor or osteopath.

CarpeDiem

RaymondLin said:

Rather than going to chiropractor, see an osteopath.  

Plus 1. I had a trapped sciatic nerve which wouldn't release as adjacent muscle was in spasm. This went on for months, in which time the NHS consultant recommended physio (didn't work) then chiropractor (didn't fix it, just aggravated it), and his solution was to operate and fuse two discs (which I refused). I paid privately to see an osteopath and he resolved the issue after two courses of treatment.

AllthegearNoidea

munckee said:

AllthegearNoidea said:

The best thing I ever did for my back pre surgery was buy a Neil summers back stretcher and his book. 

This is the new version. 

http://backrola.com/story.php

Just checking, you're not Neil Summers right? : )

Not the last time I checked. Lol

breakstuff

I was seeing one for a couple of months before Christmas for my back pain.£32 for a five minute session which seemed to do absolutely naff all.Had about eight sessions,so spent around £250 with no obvious improvement.In fact I cancelled my latest appointment on Tuesday and won't be going back.

Best avoided,in my experience.

Grunfeld

fnpt said:

I am not sure osteopathy will help as scoliosis is a curvature of the spine so not a muscular issue. I will look into it nonetheless.

Definitely not chiropractic imo.  But I can't see either osteopathy or physio helping either (other than the very simple point that exercises for flexibility and strength are always a good thing).
I'm not particularly a fan of orthopaedic solutions tbh -- unless it's extreme.  Which it isn't. 
As it happens I'm seeing someone at the moment and spending her teenage years in a brace did her no favours psychologically. 
And lastly:  Usain Bolt -- the fastest man on the planet -- has a scoliosis.  Doesn't seem to have slowed him down too much.

fnpt

Grunfeld said:

fnpt said:

I am not sure osteopathy will help as scoliosis is a curvature of the spine so not a muscular issue. I will look into it nonetheless.

Definitely not chiropractic imo.  But I can't see either osteopathy or physio helping either (other than the very simple point that exercises for flexibility and strength are always a good thing).
I'm not particularly a fan of orthopaedic solutions tbh -- unless it's extreme.  Which it isn't. 
As it happens I'm seeing someone at the moment and spending her teenage years in a brace did her no favours psychologically. 
And lastly:  Usain Bolt -- the fastest man on the planet -- has quite an impressive scoliosis.  Doesn't seem to have slowed him down too much.

Absolutely - Bolt has been an inspiration. I just want to avoid surgery which is painful and scary. My wife had it as well as my niece and the recovery is difficult.

EricTheWeary

My sister had scoliosis and spent quite a long time in and out of hospital during her adolescence and wore a Milwaukee back brace. I was five years younger so I don’t remember much in detail but I’m pretty sure she hated it and missed a lot of school. It did make her want to become a nurse though ( which she did and I’m married to the younger sister of one of her colleagues, so indirectly her back lead to my marriage!). 
It certainly didn’t get rid of her scoliosis entirely ( I’ve no idea how much difference it did make)but she didn’t really suffer with her back until in her fifties, she’s also a bit of a hypochondriac now which doesn’t help. 
I dunno, seek out as many bits of serious advice that you can but not quacks and internet gurus. Eric Jr has a serious medical condition that started at 14. We did a lot of reading, joined support groups,etc, but at the end of the day good support from the NHS has been the important bit. Maybe a bit less since he hit 18 but children’s services were brilliant.
All the best.  

ToneControl

digitalscream said:

Quackery. Dangerous, and often deadly quackery.

(apologies for the link targets, they're the first ones I found for those articles while I'm cooking dinner - there are definitely more reputable ones out there, just Google for 'em)

some have quacky ideas
that doesn't mean everything they do is quackery though
it does work on back pain and neck pain, and you can be referred on the NHS

Dangerous? Yes, same as all medicine. You'll need injuries per million treatments to qualify that
I've had medical tests that have a 1% fatality rate
Many NHS procedures have a significant risk of death, including anesthesia should they all be banned?
My friend died after a massive blob of something came loose during a routine knee operation and blocked her blood vessels in her brain. 

Often deadly?
That is not really defensible
26 deaths recorded. Ever. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642715
I agree that risk/benefit should be considered before treatment, but "often deadly" is not accurate

RaymondLin

CarpeDiem said:

RaymondLin said:

Rather than going to chiropractor, see an osteopath.  

Plus 1. I had a trapped sciatic nerve which wouldn't release as adjacent muscle was in spasm. This went on for months, in which time the NHS consultant recommended physio (didn't work) then chiropractor (didn't fix it, just aggravated it), and his solution was to operate and fuse two discs (which I refused). I paid privately to see an osteopath and he resolved the issue after two courses of treatment.

My experience is that a few years ago I started getting a dull pain in my lower back, which is mild and didn't notice but I had the following problems

1 - whenever I sneeze, I would get a nasty pain in my lower back that travels down my legs, so much so my sneeze is follow by a loud "OUCH!" out loud.  People at work thought it was hilarious.

2 - It hurt if I sit around too long, I need to be constantly moving every few minutes.  This is clearly not right.

3 - Sleeping is the worst time because this require me being still and being still means pain.

So I went to the GP, he prescribed me some muscle relaxant / pain relief which I take once a day.  It actually works but I also found out that if I stop taking it, the pain returns so instead of popping pills for the rest of my life (I did 2 months on those tablets), I asked my GP what he else he could do.  This is when he directed me to a local Osteopath.

£85 consultation and then £60 per session....but facing the eternity of pill popping vs why not give this a shot I gave it a shot

For the first 3 sessions I felt no better, and basically all he did was no more than putting his palm under my back whilst I lay down in my boxers and then he held and move my head slowly. The whole thing was like 30mins and I honestly felt I was being ripped off.

But I think after the 4th or 5th sessions one noticeable thing happened, when I sneeze I no longer in agony from the pain.  At this point I had stopped taking the prescription and the only difference I did was the sessions.  Whatever little things he did, it worked for me.

I did about 6 or 7 sessions, cost me about £500 but I have stopped popping painkillers.

ToneControl

RaymondLin said:

CarpeDiem said:

RaymondLin said:

Rather than going to chiropractor, see an osteopath.  

Plus 1. I had a trapped sciatic nerve which wouldn't release as adjacent muscle was in spasm. This went on for months, in which time the NHS consultant recommended physio (didn't work) then chiropractor (didn't fix it, just aggravated it), and his solution was to operate and fuse two discs (which I refused). I paid privately to see an osteopath and he resolved the issue after two courses of treatment.

My experience is that a few years ago I started getting a dull pain in my lower back, which is mild and didn't notice but I had the following problems

1 - whenever I sneeze, I would get a nasty pain in my lower back that travels down my legs, so much so my sneeze is follow by a loud "OUCH!" out loud.  People at work thought it was hilarious.

2 - It hurt if I sit around too long, I need to be constantly moving every few minutes.  This is clearly not right.

3 - Sleeping is the worst time because this require me being still and being still means pain.

So I went to the GP, he prescribed me some muscle relaxant / pain relief which I take once a day.  It actually works but I also found out that if I stop taking it, the pain returns so instead of popping pills for the rest of my life (I did 2 months on those tablets), I asked my GP what he else he could do.  This is when he directed me to a local Osteopath.

£85 consultation and then £60 per session....but facing the eternity of pill popping vs why not give this a shot I gave it a shot

For the first 3 sessions I felt no better, and basically all he did was no more than putting his palm under my back whilst I lay down in my boxers and then he held and move my head slowly. The whole thing was like 30mins and I honestly felt I was being ripped off.

But I think after the 4th or 5th sessions one noticeable thing happened, when I sneeze I no longer in agony from the pain.  At this point I had stopped taking the prescription and the only difference I did was the sessions.  Whatever little things he did, it worked for me.

I did about 6 or 7 sessions, cost me about £500 but I have stopped popping painkillers.

that's similar to what happened to me, except that at the Chiropractor's, it worked first time, instantly