voters with no one to vote for

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I've come to realise that I no longer have any faith in the party I'd normally vote for
also I'd never vote for their arch rivals cos they look even worse
and there is no other party that looks remotely credible

I feel like I am totally lost now and all political parties look shambolic
a voter without a home

any of you guys feeling the same??
play every note as if it were your first
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28251
    Yes, but you just have to pick the least-bad option. If you don't vote, you effectively give your vote to those who do care enough to, often for reasons you won't like as well as to parties you don't like.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • rlwrlw Frets: 1374
    Yes.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2548
    ICBM said:
    Yes, but you just have to pick the least-bad option. If you don't vote, you effectively give your vote to those who do care enough to, often for reasons you won't like as well as to parties you don't like.
    totally agree...
    last time around I voted for the least crap..
    but now the least crap is getting even crapper..
    the choice is getting more difficult..

    this is totally insane
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28251
    Clarky said:

    but now the least crap is getting even crapper..
    the choice is getting more difficult..
    I'd like to think it's just a 'getting old' thing - politicians aren't actually getting any worse, just like policemen aren't getting younger, it's just our perception of them - but I'm really not sure any more. The current crop do seem unusually weak, incompetent and self-serving.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2548
    ICBM said:
    Clarky said:

    but now the least crap is getting even crapper..
    the choice is getting more difficult..
    I'd like to think it's just a 'getting old' thing - politicians aren't actually getting any worse, just like policemen aren't getting younger, it's just our perception of them - but I'm really not sure any more. The current crop do seem unusually weak, incompetent and self-serving.
    getting old?????

    nooooooooo........ lmao


    play every note as if it were your first
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  • ronnybronnyb Frets: 324
    Clarky said:
    I've come to realise that I no longer have any faith in the party I'd normally vote for
    also I'd never vote for their arch rivals cos they look even worse
    and there is no other party that looks remotely credible

    I feel like I am totally lost now and all political parties look shambolic
    a voter without a home

    any of you guys feeling the same??
    Exactly.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 7403
    yes. I've often voted in the past for a fringe that's never going to get in. takes a vote away from the big ones who are, as you say, getting shite-er
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • mellowsunmellowsun Frets: 2229
    I like the Greens but they need more people like Caroline Lucas.
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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 1890
    I feel the same. Self-interest really dictates that there is only one party I should vote for but I do it with enormous reservations.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2548
    edited January 9
    jellyroll said:
    I feel the same. Self-interest really dictates that there is only one party I should vote for but I do it with enormous reservations.
    I know what you mean...
    to be honest I've never really liked any of them and just voted for the one that appeared to be least incompetent..

    Corbin scares me the most.. his heart may well be in the right place, but he'll bankrupt the country if he tries to keep all of his promises.. and the thought of idiots like Diane Abbott being anywhere near a position with real power is even scarier..

    May has delivered the coalition of chaos that she assured could only be avoided by voting for her [which is kinda funny and scary in equal measures].. right now she looks weak, broken and has lost control of her employees...
    the only thing she seems to do well is talk..

    the rest of them just seem insignificant..

    I was raised Labour.. my grandfather was a Labour councillor in an inner London borough for decades..
    a staunch Labour man all his life..
    after Blair's first term, I vowed never to vote Labour again... and didn't.. voted Tory from then on because although I don't agree with them, they seem to fk the country up the least..
    after seeing May's performance leading up to the last election, I was so unimpressed, I found that I couldn't vote Tory either..
    so I voted insignificant for the first time..

    I think that as we have a right to vote, we really should use it [especially as so many in other parts of the world cannot have a vote of a meaningful kind or even at all]..

    when I saw the US election I really felt sorry for them...
    it was almost funny.. Clinton or Trump.. jeez...

    now it's our turn and it looks just as bad..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28251
    Clarky said:

    after Blair's first term, I vowed never to vote Labour again... and didn't.. voted Tory from then on because although I don't agree with them, they seem to fk the country up the least..
    Absolutely the opposite is true if you look at the historical figures.

    Just in the last seven years, the Tories have borrowed more money (in real terms, not just absolute) than all the Labour governments there have ever been put together.

    It is true that Brown was incompetent and borrowed too heavily so there was nowhere to go when the wheels came off - but he's the exception. Overall the Tories have been responsible for more borrowing, less repayment, and more recessions than Labour by a large margin. The deep mess we're in is much more a product of Tory government than Labour.

    This is probably the biggest myth in British politics - Labour are actually the party of economic competence, not the Tories.

    My fear for Labour getting back in isn't Corbyn, or that they're too left-wing - it's that the rest of the party is still stuffed with useless nonentities from the Brown and Miliband years.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • OctafishOctafish Frets: 692
    There are no parties that I feel represent me or I can vote for.

    To be honest it's a bit irrelevant anyway as due to the highly unrepresentative electoral system that mainly serves to deliver a government that the majoity of the electorate don't want, my vote will never count for anything anyway.

    The constituency I live in is an incredibly safe seat for a party I'd never vote for and will likely go on that way. Whilst I can accept that in regards to electing a local representative, it stinks in terms of electing a national goverment. The only way my vote will ever count for anything is to move to a constituency that is a safe seat for a (non-existent) party I support, how crazy is that?

    The only way to make our politics representative of the will of the majority people and break up the strangle hold that the two main discredited parties wrapped up in self-interest have is a form of proportional representation. Without that we'll all just have to keep on sucking at the balls of Labour or Tory for many more years to come.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2548
    ICBM said:
    Clarky said:

    after Blair's first term, I vowed never to vote Labour again... and didn't.. voted Tory from then on because although I don't agree with them, they seem to fk the country up the least..
    Absolutely the opposite is true if you look at the historical figures.

    Just in the last seven years, the Tories have borrowed more money (in real terms, not just absolute) than all the Labour governments there have ever been put together.

    It is true that Brown was incompetent and borrowed too heavily so there was nowhere to go when the wheels came off - but he's the exception. Overall the Tories have been responsible for more borrowing, less repayment, and more recessions than Labour by a large margin. The deep mess we're in is much more a product of Tory government than Labour.

    This is probably the biggest myth in British politics - Labour are actually the party of economic competence, not the Tories.

    My fear for Labour getting back in isn't Corbyn, or that they're too left-wing - it's that the rest of the party is still stuffed with useless nonentities from the Brown and Miliband years.
    I'm actually scared that anyone at all will get in next time... lol..
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 2548

    Octafish said:
    There are no parties that I feel represent me or I can vote for.

    To be honest it's a bit irrelevant anyway as due to the highly unrepresentative electoral system that mainly serves to deliver a government that the majoity of the electorate don't want, my vote will never count for anything anyway.

    The constituency I live in is an incredibly safe seat for a party I'd never vote for and will likely go on that way. Whilst I can accept that in regards to electing a local representative, it stinks in terms of electing a national goverment. The only way my vote will ever count for anything is to move to a constituency that is a safe seat for a (non-existent) party I support, how crazy is that?

    The only way to make our politics representative of the will of the majority people and break up the strangle hold that the two main discredited parties wrapped up in self-interest have is a form of proportional representation. Without that we'll all just have to keep on sucking at the balls of Labour or Tory for many more years to come.
    same where I live.... 
    Wokingham is a pretty safe Tory camp..
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 5141
    yes. I've often voted in the past for a fringe that's never going to get in. takes a vote away from the big ones who are, as you say, getting shite-er
    this, or an independent even if I don't agree with them. At least it's a vote registered, which is harder to ignore (though OFC they still do ignore it).

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 1890
    edited January 9
    My sense is that a common theme across all parties is the poor quality of the "senior team." Its always been the case that many ministers and opposition equivalents have looked amateurish and mediocre in comparison to, say, business leaders but now it just seems to be the case that anybody with a GCSE in woodwork* can have a go at running a government department.

    * Edit:  I guess that's how they get in the Cabinet (geddit?)
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  • OctafishOctafish Frets: 692
    jellyroll said:
    My sense is that a common theme across all parties is the poor quality of the "senior team." Its always been the case that many ministers and opposition equivalents have looked amateurish and mediocre in comparison to, say, business leaders but now it just seems to be the case that anybody with a GCSE in woodwork* can have a go at running a government department.

    * Edit:  I guess that's how they get in the Cabinet (geddit?)
    Again the adversarial nature of our politics. Boris Johnson gets a top cabinet job purely because he would cause to much trouble if he was outside the cabinet. That's a great criteria to hire by :s
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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 1890
    Octafish said:
    jellyroll said:
    My sense is that a common theme across all parties is the poor quality of the "senior team." Its always been the case that many ministers and opposition equivalents have looked amateurish and mediocre in comparison to, say, business leaders but now it just seems to be the case that anybody with a GCSE in woodwork* can have a go at running a government department.

    * Edit:  I guess that's how they get in the Cabinet (geddit?)
    Again the adversarial nature of our politics. Boris Johnson gets a top cabinet job purely because he would cause to much trouble if he was outside the cabinet. That's a great criteria to hire by :s
    Although, frighteningly, Boris is actually one of those MOST qualified to run a department...
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 7403
    jellyroll said:
    Although, frighteningly, Boris is actually one of those MOST qualified to run a department...
    Says loads for the rest
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 4689
    we need to organise and strive to reverse the enclosure act immediately!


    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 1890
    Maybe there should be a trade union for government ministers; protect their rights an' all......
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 7403
    jellyroll said:
    Maybe there should be a trade union for government ministers; protect their rights an' all......
    Isn't it called the civil service?
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs.
    Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!
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  • GarthyGarthy Frets: 1244
    ICBM said:
    Clarky said:

    after Blair's first term, I vowed never to vote Labour again... and didn't.. voted Tory from then on because although I don't agree with them, they seem to fk the country up the least..
    Absolutely the opposite is true if you look at the historical figures.

    Just in the last seven years, the Tories have borrowed more money (in real terms, not just absolute) than all the Labour governments there have ever been put together.

    It is true that Brown was incompetent and borrowed too heavily so there was nowhere to go when the wheels came off - but he's the exception. Overall the Tories have been responsible for more borrowing, less repayment, and more recessions than Labour by a large margin. The deep mess we're in is much more a product of Tory government than Labour.

    This is probably the biggest myth in British politics - Labour are actually the party of economic competence, not the Tories.

    My fear for Labour getting back in isn't Corbyn, or that they're too left-wing - it's that the rest of the party is still stuffed with useless nonentities from the Brown and Miliband years.
    I really don't know where to start.

    If your wife got an unaffordable loan from the bank then after a few years lost her job so you paid back the bulk of the loan yourself, who borrowed the money? It wasn't you was it.

    That Labour is the party of economic competence is just laughable. 
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  • RavenousRavenous Frets: 1376

    I do wonder if we're doomed.

    The politicians never give a straight answer, never express any belief of their own - but they're always on the defensive from rabid self-serving journalists out to secure their own position.

    And we listen to these airhead journalists. I mean a (male) radio presenter gets paid double what the PM does, to me this illustrates they're the ones with the power to swing elections.

    Can't remember who invented the saying, but in this democracy we really did get the leaders we deserved.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28251
    Garthy said:

    That Labour is the party of economic competence is just laughable. 
    You may want to read this. It's well researched and based on the official government borrowing figures.

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

    What's remarkable is how many people - like you - simply refuse to accept the truth.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 4212
    For the last few elections I've found it much easier to work out who I would never vote for and then select my choice from what's left.

    Deeply unsatisfactory, but this is what it's come to.
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 642
    Garthy said:
    ICBM said:
    Clarky said:

    after Blair's first term, I vowed never to vote Labour again... and didn't.. voted Tory from then on because although I don't agree with them, they seem to fk the country up the least..
    Absolutely the opposite is true if you look at the historical figures.

    Just in the last seven years, the Tories have borrowed more money (in real terms, not just absolute) than all the Labour governments there have ever been put together.

    It is true that Brown was incompetent and borrowed too heavily so there was nowhere to go when the wheels came off - but he's the exception. Overall the Tories have been responsible for more borrowing, less repayment, and more recessions than Labour by a large margin. The deep mess we're in is much more a product of Tory government than Labour.

    This is probably the biggest myth in British politics - Labour are actually the party of economic competence, not the Tories.

    My fear for Labour getting back in isn't Corbyn, or that they're too left-wing - it's that the rest of the party is still stuffed with useless nonentities from the Brown and Miliband years.
    I really don't know where to start.

    If your wife got an unaffordable loan from the bank then after a few years lost her job so you paid back the bulk of the loan yourself, who borrowed the money? It wasn't you was it.

    That Labour is the party of economic competence is just laughable. 
    Dude, thats' completely nonsensical to compare a bank loan with Government borrowing.  the two are in no way comparable.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 2946
    ICBM said:
    Garthy said:

    That Labour is the party of economic competence is just laughable. 
    You may want to read this. It's well researched and based on the official government borrowing figures.

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

    What's remarkable is how many people - like you - simply refuse to accept the truth.


    I looked at that the last time you posted it.  I think I posted a reply on whatever thread it was on.  The vast majority of the borrowing is in recent years.  The borrowing in recent years absolutely dwarfs the borrowing in earlier years.

    Most of the borrowing in recent years is down to the extravagance of the Bliar/Brown years, and all the PFI never never commitments they signed up to.

    I'm not saying that the current lot have been perfect, far from it, but generally the Tories are more economically competent than Labour.  They do at least appreciate that there isn't an unlimited pot of money.  They have the other problem in that they don't invest enough though.

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  • OctafishOctafish Frets: 692
    crunchman said:
    ICBM said:
    Garthy said:

    That Labour is the party of economic competence is just laughable. 
    You may want to read this. It's well researched and based on the official government borrowing figures.

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

    What's remarkable is how many people - like you - simply refuse to accept the truth.


    I looked at that the last time you posted it.  I think I posted a reply on whatever thread it was on.  The vast majority of the borrowing is in recent years.  The borrowing in recent years absolutely dwarfs the borrowing in earlier years.

    Most of the borrowing in recent years is down to the extravagance of the Bliar/Brown years, and all the PFI never never commitments they signed up to.

    I'm not saying that the current lot have been perfect, far from it, but generally the Tories are more economically competent than Labour.  They do at least appreciate that there isn't an unlimited pot of money.  They have the other problem in that they don't invest enough though.

    What about all the PFI that Major (you know, the guy who introduced PFI) signed up to or was that 'good' PFI?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 28251
    crunchman said:

    I looked at that the last time you posted it.  I think I posted a reply on whatever thread it was on.  The vast majority of the borrowing is in recent years.  The borrowing in recent years absolutely dwarfs the borrowing in earlier years.

    Most of the borrowing in recent years is down to the extravagance of the Bliar/Brown years, and all the PFI never never commitments they signed up to.

    I'm not saying that the current lot have been perfect, far from it, but generally the Tories are more economically competent than Labour.  They do at least appreciate that there isn't an unlimited pot of money.  They have the other problem in that they don't invest enough though.

    No, that is exactly what it does not show, It shows, absolutely conclusively, that generally Labour are more economically competent than the Tories - with the glaring exception of Gordon Brown... if you only go on the years before 2001 it's overwhelming. And half of what Brown did wrong was to take Tory ideas like PFI and increase their use.

    Brown is the only Labour leader to have caused a recession too - the others since WWII have all been under Tory governments.

    But even presented with the figures, people still believe the Tories are the party of economic competence - why?

    Labour certainly doesn't believe there is an unlimited pot of money - the reason they're better at running the economy is exactly because they understand that it has to be raised by taxation. The Tories borrow and then don't repay because they cut taxes too much and then can't pay for spending, which they are no better at controlling than Labour... but they get voted in because people take the bribe of tax cuts. Hence we are where we are - with the interest on the national debt as the fifth largest single item of government spending. Most of that was down to Osborne.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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