Protools first vs reaper

NelsonP

I've just bought a Focusrite interface.  The bundled DAW is Protools first. You are limited to three projects at once.

Since I'm new to this recording malarkey I'm wondering, should I go down the Protools route, or learn something else like Audacity or Reaper.

I'm only looking to record stuff at home really, plus maybe some jams with a mate.

Danny1969

Use Reaper, Protools first is awful

NelsonP

Thanks Danny. Glad I spent most of last night installing a piece of junk then.

Will the other bundled software also work with Reaper - XLN Addictive drums, Bias amps, Bias FX, Softube time and tone bundle etc.

stratman3142

NelsonP said:

Thanks Danny. Glad I spent most of last night installing a piece of junk then.

Will the other bundled software also work with Reaper - XLN Addictive drums, Bias amps, Bias FX, Softube time and tone bundle etc.

I use loads of VSTs (including XLN Addictive Drums) with Reaper and don't have any problems.
I think there are quite a few Reaper users on the forum that can offer help if you need it.

Danny1969

Well it is worth installing for a couple of reasons .... the included Xpand virtual instrument  is superb, it contains loads of great drum kits, pianos, strings and just about everything you need to make professional sounding music. It's an industry standard VI and so good some people just have midi keyboards running that as their keyboard rig, I used to myself

PT is still the best DAW for editing audio quickly, I have PT first on this laptop for certain jobs as it will work with the laptops own built in audio chip wherever my proper PT systems demand firing up dedicated audio interfaces and such 

The reason I say go with Reaper is the limitations of PT First are too restrictive and that  will annoy you very quickly .... that and the fact it wants to work off the cloud constantly and the fact it also wants to crash every ten seconds

Reaper, for the small amount it costs is actually very good. Any VST's will work with reaper as long as you point Reaper to where they are ... if they don's install in the usual places. Just install and then go to Reaper -  preferences, plugins, browse to and  rescan etc. The included plugins aren't great but there are many free alternatives that will work well in Reaper. 

meltedbuzzbox

Another +1 for Reaper.

guitarfishbay

You're better off learning one DAW really well before worrying about what is better or not elsewhere.  So in your scenario it makes more sense to learn Reaper since it isn't limited compared to PT first.  

NelsonP

Thanks for the tips folks. Looks like I am reaper bound then.

Jalapeno

Checkout the re-launched Tracktion too ....

NelsonP

Installed reaper. Am impressed.

Now fighting latency issues. This stuff is complicated!

Setup is guitar > modeller > interface > daw on pc (i7 16gb ram) > interface > headphones. Modeller doing all the heavy lifting on signal processing.

I have a backing track in the daw and am playing guitar tracks over it. I'm monitoring with headphones plugged into the interface, using the output from the daw. 

Sounds fine when recording but when I listen back to the recording of my guitar it has approx 70ms latency. I can fix this by adjusting the output latency in the daw. But that seems like cheating.

Also, at the moment I'm guessing on the latency time as I'm not sure how to get the reported time out of the system yet (noob).


I have 2 questions:
1 Where can i find the reported latency?
2. What is the approved way to fix latency?

I've read about checking asio drivers, reducing buffer sizes (which I think is done in the focusrite control software rather than directly in the daw on a pc) and various other approaches etc but am hoping there might be a single 'best' approach.

Focusrite also seem have an option for 'super low latency' direct monitoring which I need to  check out.

Sorry for noob questions.

Any tips?

stratman3142

Reaper reports the Input/Ouput latency as two numbers in the top right hand corner. The total latency is the sum of those two numbers.

If your modeller is doing the signal processing (i.e. amp simulation and effects). Then you can use a direct monitor setting on your interface, and the reported latency isn't of concern, even if it's pretty high. Reaper will make sure that tracks are aligned in time, making an allowance for the reported latency.

The latency becomes a concern if you're using 'through DAW' monitoring when recording your guitar parts, using a VST ampsim and effects within your computer. Then it's necessary to get the latency low enough so that you don't sense a delay between what you play and what you hear.

It's strange that your guitar is delayed after you recorded it. Within Reaper preferences have you selected the Focusrite as your ASIO interface?

NelsonP

Thanks Stratman. Hopefully I can figure out what it is that's causing the latency.

I am planning to recheck the Focusrite drivers have installed properly and are working.
I'll also check the ASIO interface settings in Reaper.
And I'll push the buffer settings (currently 1024 samples @44.1khz, so some gains to be made there hopefully)

Putting in an aribtrary 70ms offset on the output just doesn't feel like the right solution. Neither does it feel like I should be getting that much latency with the PC spec I have. The solution is probably something obvious if you know what to look for, which unfortunately I don't (yet)

stratman3142

You only need low latency if, when you record, you're monitoring what you're playing using a signal that has been processed through your computer. In other words, a signal that has been converted from analogue to digital > then effects added in the computer > then converted back from digital to an analogue signal and sent to your headphones or monitor speakers.

If you're using a modeller for your amp sounds (and effects) while recording, then you should be able to set your interface to a direct monitoring mode. Then, when you play, you hear a signal before it goes into your computer and without the latencies associated with the analogue>digital>analogue conversion process. Then it doesn't matter what your latency setting is on the interface provided it's being reported correctly to Reaper. Reaper will then align the tracks to be in sync.

Below are some pictures of my settings in Reaper preferences. 

In the first picture, my ASIO driver is shown as a Zoom UAC-2, but I would expect yours to show something with Focusrite in the name. 

In the second picture, make sure that there's a tick against "Use audio driver reported latency", which should be the default setting anyway. There is the option of making manual offsets but this shouldn't be necessary.

https://i.imgur.com/qadlodt.png

https://i.imgur.com/m2bYzka.png

stratman3142

This might be information overload, but what modeller are you using? Many can function as audio interface in their own right. In which case you'd select your modeller as the Audio device and attach your headphones or monitor speakers to the modeller.

NelsonP

Wow - thanks so much. I'll give this a try.

I know for a fact that the 'Use audio driver reported latency' tickbox was checked, so that's fine (assuming that it is reporting the latency properly).

To the right of that is is where I'm forcing an output manual offset of 70ms. If kind of 'fixes' the problem but isn't perfect. Like putting gaffer tape around a leaky pipe.

I will check the Focusrite ASIO drivers have installed correctly. That's the lead candidate for the problem at the moment I think.

Will report back here once I've done that.

NelsonP

stratman3142 said:

This might be information overload, but what modeller are you using? Many can function as audio interface in their own right. In which case you'd select your modeller as the Audio device and attach your headphones or monitor speakers to the modeller.

Its an Amplifire. So that won't work unfortunately.

My old POD XT could do it fine, with no need for an interface.

Progress?

goldtop

Can you not get click/pop-free recording with a buffer WAY lower than 1024? i7 PC should be sprightly enough for 128 or 96, perhaps?

NelsonP

Yes, I will try that. Could save me 20ms or so.

Trouble is I've got around 70ms in there at the moment, so need to look at other settings too.

NelsonP

Hats off to you stratman. The problem was that the audio system was not set as ASIO in reaper. Fixing that fixed the issue.

There is more info about that here, but it basically says what you said.
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207546025-Reaper-setup-guide

I now have negligible latency. Loving it!

Thank you sir.

Freebird

NelsonP said:

Hats off to you stratman. The problem was that the audio system was not set as ASIO in reaper. Fixing that fixed the issue.

There is more info about that here, but it basically says what you said.
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207546025-Reaper-setup-guide

I now have negligible latency. Loving it!

Thank you sir.

The lower you set your buffer the smaller your latency will be. As a general rule, use a small buffer for recording and a larger buffer for mixing when you add more plugins, etc.