Fender Blues Deluxe revalve Q’s

thebreeze

I’ve owned my FBD a long time - since ‘94 which was when they first came out I think.

 For various reasons; work, family, life, it didn’t get played a whole lot in the early days and I ended up thinking I didn’t really like it.  Anyway, over the last 5 years or so I’ve been playing WAY more and increasingly using the FBD along with other amps I’ve bought along the way.  For some reason though the FBD seems to suit me and in the last couple of years I’ve come to really love it (bear with me this is going somewhere).

It’s time for a revalve (24 years ain’t bad!!).  Now - do I also love the amp more and more because the valves have matured - is that a possible factor or just rubbish?  If I like it so much should I replace the valves exactly like for like? (I’ve seen recommendations for changes on other threads).  Importantly, does it matter which make I get?  I’ve been to Watford Valves’s site and prices for 6L6’s for example range from approx £10-£85.  Does it matter if the valves were made for the US army, were GEC from the ‘80’s etc, Cyro etc.?

I’m a bit lost as to what will be the best replacements tbh - your experience and advice would be gratefully received.

Sorry for the verbiage and all the questions and thank you!

rico

It's unlikely that the preamp valves will replacing, much more so the power amp valves. I can't speak for the actual valves and the differences between them but I know that there is some animosity towards Watford Valves on this forum. 

I use @karltone of this very parish and I use JJ power amp valves in my amps. You'd ideally want matched pairs or quads, depending on how many valves you have!

thebreeze

Thanks @rico - I didn't realise this, I was under the impression I would have to change the whole lot (2+3).  The reason I think I need to change is because it's begun to make some strange noises when I play, particularly if I turn up and hit the strings harder.  Is JJ a make?  I think the ones in it now are Sovtek.

rico

I was generally under the impression that unless a preamp valve is faulty (microphonic etc) then they can last a lifetime, they aren't doing anywhere near as much 'work' as the power amp valves. 

Yeah, JJ is a manufacturer and probably the most commonly used valves worldwide. 

For what it's worth, I use TAD (tube amp doctor) preamp valves in my Marshall amps and JJ power amp valves. 

earwighoney

@thebreeze

I myself have a 94 FBD that I owned since 97 or so and I put some new valves in it recently and I really think it brought it back to life and I put the following valves in it if it's of any interest.

Power Valves - JJ 6L6GC's
V1 - JJ 12AY7
V2 - NOS ECC83
V3 - RFT ECC81

The JJ 6L6's I bought from Langrex and the other ones I bought from Langrex, both NOS around a tenner each from what I remember. 

Sassafras

It's my understanding that cryogenically treating valves is no more effective than dipping them in snake oil.

thebreeze

Thanks for the comments everyone.

@earwighoney how did this configuration affect the tone?  Is it very different to 3 12AX74's?  Is it important/significant to have those 12AY7's or can they be any type and in any order?

ICBM

thebreeze said:

@earwighoney how did this configuration affect the tone?  Is it very different to 3 12AX74's?  Is it important/significant to have those 12AY7's or can they be any type and in any order?

The order is important. I agree with earwighoney about this valve set - the types are the most important part rather than the brands - it opens up the tone of the amp, increases the depth and clarity, reduces gain slightly and makes the volume controls a bit less touchy. It's not a *huge* difference - the amp will still sound like a Blues Deluxe - but noticeable.

The 12AY7 was the valve Fender originally used as V1 in the 50s Tweed amps, and the 12AT7 as the phase inverter (V3 in this amp) in the 60s and 70s Blackface/Silverface amps, if that helps explain it.

thebreeze

ICBM said:

thebreeze said:

@earwighoney how did this configuration affect the tone?  Is it very different to 3 12AX74's?  Is it important/significant to have those 12AY7's or can they be any type and in any order?

The order is important. I agree with earwighoney about this valve set - the types are the most important part rather than the brands - it opens up the tone of the amp, increases the depth and clarity, reduces gain slightly and makes the volume controls a bit less touchy. It's not a *huge* difference - the amp will still sound like a Blues Deluxe - but noticeable.

The 12AY7 was the valve Fender originally used as V1 in the 50s Tweed amps, and the 12AT7 as the phase inverter (V3 in this amp) in the 60s and 70s Blackface/Silverface amps, if that helps explain it.

Thanks - that's very helpful.  I think I'll go for this then.  When you say 12AT7 in V3 is that what earwighoney's RFT ECC81 is?  I was assuming that was a 12AY7 (indeed all of V1,V2 and V3). Sorry for these basic questions. 

earwighoney

thebreeze said:

The order is important. I agree with earwighoney about this valve set - the types are the most important part rather than the brands - it opens up the tone of the amp, increases the depth and clarity, reduces gain slightly and makes the volume controls a bit less touchy. It's not a *huge* difference - the amp will still sound like a Blues Deluxe - but noticeable.

The 12AY7 was the valve Fender originally used as V1 in the 50s Tweed amps, and the 12AT7 as the phase inverter (V3 in this amp) in the 60s and 70s Blackface/Silverface amps, if that helps explain it.

Thanks - that's very helpful.  I think I'll go for this then.  When you say 12AT7 in V3 is that what earwighoney's RFT ECC81 is?  I was assuming that was a 12AY7 (indeed all of V1,V2 and V3). Sorry for these basic questions. 

Yes a 12AT7 is a ECC81, like a 12AX7 is also known as a ECC83.

I agree with ICBM's tonal description.

thebreeze

Cool @earwighoney, so just to be clear you have V1 = 12AY7, V2 = 12AX7, V3 = 12AT7 ?

Can you mix those around then and does it affect the tone?

ICBM

thebreeze said:

Cool @earwighoney, so just to be clear you have V1 = 12AY7, V2 = 12AX7, V3 = 12AT7 ?

Can you mix those around then and does it affect the tone?

You could, but it doesn't work well and could cause trouble. In particular, don't use a 12AY7 in V3 - the cathode voltage is higher there than in the other positions and the valve could fail.

The 12AX7 can be used anywhere - that's what they come with as stock - the 12AT7 can sound a bit 'cold' in V1 or V2, and the 12AY7 doesn't sound that good in V2 either in my opinion.

thebreeze

Great thank you.  I think I've got there!  I'll try this.  If Rico is also right about the pre-amp valves lasting a lifetime I can potentially revert/reuse to 12AX7's in all three if I don't like it (provided they're still okay of course).

Thanks for your help and patience.