Dedicated Pedals v multi effects (Zoom, Boss . . .)

notanon

@rossyamaha in his recent YouTube thread has just told me about the number of tube screamers etc - amazing!

I have never fancied paying for a single type of pedal and went down a Zoom G5 route where huge permutations of 'pedals' can be configured. Also with the boss katana + software the possibilities of course increasing.

For myself I don't gig and play at fairly low volumes, I think the zoom and katana are fantastic. I have a friend who does gig and he purchased the zoom G5 also, he was telling me that on stage it was very difficult to get the tones he was looking to replace his pedals so he reverted back pretty quickly.

Curious what the FretBoard folk think about the multi effects pedals v dedicated pedals. Will there be a time when multi effects replace all other pedals? How is the quality improving over the years for the multi effects -  seems to be exponential improvements to me.

vasselmeyer

I used a Zoom G3 extensively in an effects loop but stuck with analogue drives in front of the amp. With careful use of presets I could get a flanger, phaser, chorus, tremolo, delays and reverbs and have them individually selectable. At gig volume I really couldn't tell the difference between them and individual pedals. 

The drives were decent but only into the G3's own amp sims. Into a normal amps I didn't like the sounds at all. 

I've still got the G3 and have no intention of moving it on. I have it as a backup in case my amp or pedalboard go down. I really think they're amazing little units and an absolute steal for the price you can pick them up for used. 

Fez

When Boss brought out the ME5 (remember them) in the late 80's it seemed like it was all over for stomp boxes. However the inflexibility of them in a live context and the rather bland sounds meant the weren't all conquering. Pedals came back with boutique effects boxes commanding quite high (in some cases ridiculous) prices. Nowadays the choice is yours there are some great multi effects/modellers out there and incredible variety of stomp boxes. 
    For me there are two issues with multi effect units:
1. You can spend half your life fiddling and programming sounds instead of getting your hands on the fretboard.
2. What you program in your bedroom might sound great there but sound rubbish in a live setting.

Live I use a pedal board with no programmable units or switching and that suits me, though it's pretty heavy and sometimes I look at things like fly rig and think yeah that's pretty cute maybe....

For bedroom players some of the multi effect units or amps with effects are fantastic and great value for money.

Slimbert

Use whatever you want to use. If you're happy with what you've got, then that really is all that matters.

There's no doubt that with the Kemper and Helix etc that digital/modelling gear is getting better.

Those systems have converted some already and no doubt more will follow but it won't convert everyone. Some people like pedals and pedalboards and there's nowt wrong with that either.

There's an irony that I was more than happy using multi effect pedals for years (Boss and Digitech) and now that multi effects and digital gear in general have improved loads, I've switched to individual pedals!

That said, I'm sure I'll end up with a Helix at some point in the future.

It really does comes down to what you're happy with. For me its always been about the sound that comes out of the speaker and never the look of the gear or the brand being used or doing what people on a guitar forum tell you is the best gear to use.

Just do whatever makes you happy and you can't go wrong!

stickyfiddle

it depends what you want. 

In my last band, I used a mix of single pedals and a line 6 M9 for “signature” sounds - mostly swirlies and delays. 

Now I have all singles because, having tried a Helix last year, I realised I really enjoy the “tangible object” aspect of each single pedal, and found myself both a little overwhelmed by the options the Helix provided, while also being rather underwhelmed by some of the fx (particularly the pitch shifting and reverb).

rossyamaha

I've been a pedal guy for years. Lost count of how many pedalboards I've built, scrapped, rebuilt, had b and c versions of etc. There is always going to be a market for single units vs multi fx but it really comes down to what you need and how much space you have. To have lots of different sounds you need lots of different pedals. Enter the "utility" pedals like G3, MS3, H9, M5, M9 and what may or may not be coming out. They become very useful as they do loads and save space. These really are just multi fx in a smaller package so you start to wonder if you should go with a full blown multi. For the most part, what lets these down are the drives. Products like Helix have sorted this and sound every bit as good as analogue drives but there is still a romance in the analogue stuff. Then you start to go back to thinking about single pedals and the round and round you go. 

Helix is what I use most but still use some external drives. Sound wise, I'm very happy. Obviously lots of this is also down to cost and how much expendable cash you have. When you look at your board and you have 5 modulations that total £850, a multi effector that gives you loads more than that and sounds great suddenly makes sense. 

Kebabkid

I loved having a MIDI set up in the 90s and the expediency of it all and have used multi-fx (they have their place), but  I've always preferred the sound of an amp and decent pedals.

Also, and I can't speak for the Helix and Kempers as I've not tried them and my brief flirtation with a Fractal FX-8 wasn't a good one, but I've found that it's rare for the fx in such units to ALL be good e.g. my Zoom B3 is excellent at a lot of things but the Octaver is pants! With pedals, you can at least pick the best ones/the ones suited to you and if you don't like it, you take it off and replace it.

Of course, if these newer multi-fx units deliver on the above from the get-go, plus they're offering a lot of choice and updates that are spot on or close to the real pedal, then happy days.

EricTheWeary

The death of the single stomp has been promised before but never happened. If you look at pro boards there is often a mix of technologies and just what works. Interesting how some found the level of technology that works for them and use that even though many bedroom players would consider it dated.

I had a brief go with multi fx live but there was a lot of memorising and problems changing things on the fly. I mean I can change the settings on my smart phone but I wouldn't like to have to do so with band mates and an audience waiting for me to do it ASAP. 

ICBM

I've recently gone back to using a multi-FX - a Boss ME-50. I did some proper A/B testing with it and my analogue pedalboard using a loop selector so I could accurately compare them on the fly, and came to the conclusion that there was no real difference in the quality of most of the effects, and that where there was, in all but a couple of cases the ME-50 actually sounded better. It's also very easy to use because it does almost everything with knobs rather than push-buttons and menus.

But it still has the enormous disadvantage that if you want a specific effect that isn't on it, tough. It removes the ability to mix and match brands and types, and for some people that is a complete deal-breaker. On the other hand, it's very basic as multi-FX go - there are many much more powerful ones that have almost every type of effect - but they're still limited to those particular ones. If you happen to prefer a specific fuzz for example... still tough.

I think the real breakthrough for multi-FX will be when someone makes a universal software-based system which you can download different effects for, and allows independent developers to access - kind of like Android or iOS for pedals. Or maybe I'm out of touch and this exists already...

Sassafras

I suffer from crippling option paralysis so I prefer as simple a setup as possible.

notanon

Interesting responses. I'm more than happy with my setup I was curious what the people who gig think and those that have tried both.

Anything digital improves at Moore's law rates and multi effects are very impressive IMO.

I agree with the tamper time. The zoom G5 has some presets that are close to the 'artist' but some seem miles out (obviously the pickups play a big part in who it tries to mimic). I try not to get bogged down too much fiddling, I find the ones that work and move those to the easily accessible banks via the channel switch.

Jota

I like multi-fx mixed with single pedals.
For years I used a Nova System with my band. One thing I use A LOT in the kind of music my band plays is harmonizers in different keys so, I need presets and multi-fx are the simple and cheapeast way.
Right now I'm using the Boss MS-3 and an expression pedal in one band and for my other band I add a KoT clone, a fuzz and a Flashback delay.
The drives in the MS-3 are surprisingly good and I could live with it for almost everything I need but sometimes I'm all about my KoT's tone and the MS-3 is kind of limited for some things so I need an external drive at least.

I was never a big effct guy, although I love overdrives so, I could easily live with a fuzz, a drive and a delay if I didn't had no bands.

lincolnblue

I have always gone down the single effects route for a couple of reasons.
1. If a single pedal breaks, you can easily replace it and in the meantime you still have other effects to call on. If a multi fx unit breaks - they're generally more expensive and all your effects break together.

2. I like to buy and sell and swap pedals. I know multi fx units give a great range and variety of pedals, but I like to try different things, try new pedals, add as many as I like to my board. With a multi fx you are (as I understand it) more limited to how many effects can be used at once.

Ultimately though there's no right or wrong option. Whatever suits you best 

ICBM

lincolnblue said:

If a single pedal breaks, you can easily replace it and in the meantime you still have other effects to call on. If a multi fx unit breaks - they're generally more expensive and all your effects break together.

This is a definite concern for gigging. Unless you carry a duplicate one as a backup, you're fairly screwed if it goes down and you rely on the sounds. At best you will need a couple of single pedals as well, which may get you by but won't be close to the same sound.

duotone

I think there’s some truth to what Phillip Mcknight said, that no matter what guitar shop in the world you find yourself in, you can probably afford a pedal in there. 

notanon

lincolnblue said:

With a multi fx you are (as I understand it) more limited to how many effects can be used at once.

With the Zoom G5 and the G5n then limited to 9 effects.

colourofsound

My most 'important' effects are single boxes and I use a Zoom MS-50G for everything else. If I have an effect that is used for two bars of one song in a set, I'm not going to drop £50+ on a pedal and have it take up space on my board. Thats what the Zoom is for.

One thing I have noticed also is that digital effects don't react in the same way to other pedals as analogue effects. I was using the Zoom's RC Booster patch to boost into my Snouse Blackbox; sounded shit; flat. But when I used an analogue booster, it sounded great.

It all depends on your use case. I personally feel that certain pedals like drives, boosts and comps work better as analogue pedals; they 'feel' better to me. For everything else; there's digital.

eSully

ICBM said:

I think the real breakthrough for multi-FX will be when someone makes a universal software-based system which you can download different effects for, and allows independent developers to access - kind of like Android or iOS for pedals. Or maybe I'm out of touch and this exists already...

I love this idea, an open source OS specifically designed to host FX, allowing anyone to build their own FX and upload to some form of shared FX store. Assignable pedalboards!! I guess it would be similar to what you can achieve now through a DAW with plugins but then assignable to an offline pedalboard!!

Should be simple right!!!, any of software devs fancy knocking this up over the weekend

ICBM

eSully said:

ICBM said:

I think the real breakthrough for multi-FX will be when someone makes a universal software-based system which you can download different effects for, and allows independent developers to access - kind of like Android or iOS for pedals. Or maybe I'm out of touch and this exists already...

I love this idea, an open source OS specifically designed to host FX, allowing anyone to build their own FX and upload to some form of shared FX store. Assignable pedalboards!! I guess it would be similar to what you can achieve now through a DAW with plugins but then assignable to an offline pedalboard!!

Yes, exactly - a hardware box with say ten 'pedals' each having a dedicated footswitch and three or four knobs, which you could buy and download effects for and assign to any of them. The code should be available so independent developers can make their own effects and sell them through the online store. I'm sure all the individual elements of the technology exist already - it's basically a combination of the Zoom G3/G5 with the Line 6 Tonecore series and the Apple Store - but as far as I know no-one has put it all together.

I don't have the technical knowledge to do it, but I'd guess there may be someone here who does.

Danny1969

I had a situation on Sat where someone else did the 2nd set for me as I have just had a hernia op. He had a pedal board with some big names, Strymon Delay, Bognor Ecstasy, Klon plus tube screamer, chorus etc. So I used his gear into his amp.

There were some good sounds but there's a lot of foot taping with pedal boards. On Pink Floyds Time I'm on mild dirt for the verse then turn that off for clean and turn on chorus for the chorus, then when it comes to solo turn off chorus, turn on full on dirt pedal, turn on delay and turn on boost at the same time as singing BV 

With my normal setup which is GT10 midi'ed to a JMP-1 that is one press of a pedal  so I missed that.

I'm actually in the process of making a pedal board now and a bunch of pedals and I've started to think about ways of grouping pedals .... if the fuzz, delay and boost pedal is assigned to group 3 for instance than hitting group 3's footswitch will turn all these on. But if group 2 only has the fuzz and boost etc then it's a way of making patches...... I haven't thought about it a great deal but I can see there's a way to have less tap dancing with pedals without getting in to the who Bob Bradshaw switching systems. 

The Amp 11 clone I just built also switches my HRD when the small switch is flipped because that's my dirty sound in another band and now it's one press of a pedal not 2

 

HAL9000

Sassafras said:

I suffer from crippling option paralysis so I prefer as simple a setup as possible.

This. I’m not a fan of lots of options. I prefer keeping things simple and, more to the point, intuitive. 

I quite like pedals like the MXR Micro Chorus or MXR Phase 90 where the basic sounds are so good that they don’t need lots of knobs to be able to dial in a half-decent sound.

And don’t get me started on amps where you need a programming degree to make best use of all the options. I know it’s horses for courses but I’d far rather manufacturers spend time, money, and effort on a handful of decent tones instead of a huge number of options and parameters most of which I will never use.