WOW! Telefunken valves available again

ESchap

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/

Oh ...  they nearly had us there ...   They're just JJ's with a nice Telefunken label on and box ... wonder how much more they will be than plain JJ's?  

Suspect they'll sound as close to real Telefunken's and last as long as the new reissue Mullard's and Tung sol's do to their name-sake originals.  Though the 6L6 and 6550 might be OK as Telefunken never made them!

ICBM

They do look exactly like relabelled JJs, yes. You can even see the distinctive 'dimple' in the plates on the ECC83s. Looks very much like another brand name marketing con.

A quick online search and currency conversion check gives...

€9.10 for the standard JJ one (£7.61)

$38 for the Telefunken branded one (£22.85)

ESchap

Wait a minute ... they're specially selected (to actually work!)  ...  well that makes them worth 3 times the price!

ThePrettyDamned

Lol

People will fall for it though. I'd rather get 3 times the number of valves, and take my chances!

Dave_Mc

wow

jpfamps

ICBM said:

They do look exactly like relabelled JJs, yes. You can even see the distinctive 'dimple' in the plates on the ECC83s. Looks very much like another brand name marketing con.

A quick online search and currency conversion check gives...

€9.10 for the standard JJ one (£7.61)

$38 for the Telefunken branded one (£22.85)

Now be fair; the "Telefunken" ECC83s look to be the gold pin version of the JJ ECC83, which has a UK retail of £16.50.

Ossyrocks

I have four original Telefunken ECC83's, two ribbed plates and two flat plates. All test strong and are not microphonic.

However, I have tried them in almost every amp I've owned in the last three years and still don't care for their tone. In my Fenders they add a brightness and brittleness I just don't care for. Vintage RCA's are way better to me.

Just my thoughts.

Rob.

DartmoorHedgehog

jpfamps said:

Now be fair; the "Telefunken" ECC83s look to be the gold pin version of the JJ ECC83, which has a UK retail of £16.50.

Sorry for the slight thread-jack, but I noticed those last time I was shopping for preamp valves (bought normal JJs in the end). What's "better" about them, apart from the gold plated pins?

ICBM

jpfamps said:

Now be fair; the "Telefunken" ECC83s look to be the gold pin version of the JJ ECC83, which has a UK retail of £16.50.

Oops, sorry, my mistake. I forgot for a minute that gold-plated pins massively improve the performance even when the sockets aren't.

ossyrocks said:

I have four original Telefunken ECC83's, two ribbed plates and two flat plates. All test strong and are not microphonic.

However, I have tried them in almost every amp I've owned in the last three years and still don't care for their tone. In my Fenders they add a brightness and brittleness I just don't care for. Vintage RCA's are way better to me.

Same here. I haven't tried many Telefunkens in many amps to be honest, but from the ones I have, I prefer many other old-production valves. Possibly most other…

Telefunkens are most desirable for hi-fi, and I can see why.

jpfamps

DartmoorHedgehog said:

jpfamps said:

Now be fair; the "Telefunken" ECC83s look to be the gold pin version of the JJ ECC83, which has a UK retail of £16.50.

Sorry for the slight thread-jack, but I noticed those last time I was shopping for preamp valves (bought normal JJs in the end). What's "better" about them, apart from the gold plated pins?

Well, "back in the day" gold plated pins was a sign of a valve being a "premium" version, ie either made to higher specs, or selected for better performance.

I've not evidence either way whether the JJ Gold pin valves are made to better specs than their regular line.

DartmoorHedgehog

So probably just gold plated pins then

Thanks.  As you were folks...

ThePrettyDamned

Good lord, it's a mine field.

When I revalved my Lane, I just got jj 12ax7s and... Er... Some el34. It was one of the more affordable ones, maybe Tad?

They worked. I know valves do make a difference, but i would very much like the opportunity to a/b them and see why some are 20 or 30 quid per valve and others are little more than a fiver.

I know reliability is different brand to brand, too. And model to model... Mine field!

Cirrus

I've seen a few people say that they like the gold plated jjs even though they (quite rightly) hate the regular lower priced ones. I do wonder if they're specially selected not to sound like muddy horror before being canonised with gold pins...

ThePrettyDamned

Cirrus;189150" said:

I've seen a few people say that they like the gold plated jjs even though they (quite rightly) hate the regular lower priced ones. I do wonder if they're specially selected not to sound like muddy horror before being canonised with gold pins...

My Laney wasn't muddy with them...

See? I literally have no idea with valves are jj bad then? :S

ESchap

ICBM said:

  ossyrocks said:

I have four original Telefunken ECC83's, two ribbed plates and two flat plates. All test strong and are not microphonic.

However, I have tried them in almost every amp I've owned in the last three years and still don't care for their tone. In my Fenders they add a brightness and brittleness I just don't care for. Vintage RCA's are way better to me.

Same here. I haven't tried many Telefunkens in many amps to be honest, but from the ones I have, I prefer many other old-production valves. Possibly most other…

Telefunkens are most desirable for hi-fi, and I can see why.

Same experience here with Telefunken's, they are just too clean.  I think the reality is that they were extremely well designed and manufactured, used very good coating materials, particularly on the cathodes.  They just don't add much to the signal going through them, therefore they don't really do what we want in a guitar amp and add some colour.   Excellent valves for HiFi, but stupidly expensive these days.

ICBM

It is not somewhat ironic that some of the most desirable and expensive old valves are those which have the *least* 'valvey' characteristics in some ways? Same with Mullard GZ34s - great valve, but it has about the lowest sag and best linearity of any valve rectifier, ie is the closest to a solid-state one!

Ossyrocks

ICBM said:

It is not somewhat ironic that some of the most desirable and expensive old valves are those which have the *least* 'valvey' characteristics in some ways? Same with Mullard GZ34s - great valve, but it has about the lowest sag and best linearity of any valve rectifier, ie is the closest to a solid-state one!

Ahh, but that's what I like about the Mullard GZ34 ! I have them in my blackface Fenders. I've tried plug in SS rectifiers, but the extra plate voltage they deliver ends up being too spanky and clean. The Mullard GZ34 is the perfect match between "give" and "spank".

Admittedly, some of the silverface amps end up having too much voltage with a GZ34, and in those amps I keep the old RCA 5U4GB's. 

I love valves !

Rob.

ICBM

ossyrocks said:

Ahh, but that's what I like about the Mullard GZ34 ! I have them in my blackface Fenders. I've tried plug in SS rectifiers, but the extra plate voltage they deliver ends up being too spanky and clean. The Mullard GZ34 is the perfect match between "give" and "spank".

Admittedly, some of the silverface amps end up having too much voltage with a GZ34, and in those amps I keep the old RCA 5U4GB's. 

I love valves !

This is one of the main advantages of them, that you can fine-tune the performance by using different ones…

Have you tried a 5V4? You may need to be careful in a 45W Silverface (check the current draw - fine in one of the lower-powered models), but for me they're the perfect compromise between the GZ34 (too stiff, too like a solid-state) and the 5U4 (slightly too saggy). I run my Trem-o-verb with two of them.

Ossyrocks

No, I haven't tried a 5V4 in my blackface amps, although I am now kicking myself as I had an NOS RCA 5V4 which a gave to a friend last week for his 5E3 Deluxe. I hadn't thought of trying it in my amps ! Bah humbug.

Rob.

ICBM

Damn .

A 5V4 is only rated for 175mA (compared to 250mA for a GZ34 or 5U4) but that should be OK for up to 40W at 450-470V - my Trem-o-verb draws 350mA on the nose at 80W (max power in valve rectifier mode), which I figure is OK with two NOS GEs. Not that I ever crank it in real life anyway...