Guitaronomics

BRISTOL86

All good points chaps and interesting debate.

From the perspective of a relative newcomer to all things guitar, and leading on from the thread about the magazines.....it seems like the industry is a little stuck in the past and desperately clinging on the ‘experience’ of the guitar store (an experience which I must say has pretty much always been borderline unenjoyable personally) and I can’t really work out why. 

Distance selling law has made it almost impossible to go wrong buying online (for better or worse) and in all honesty I have a lot of respect for those operating retail premises who continue to make the model work in such a challenging environment. 

I’m not 100% up on the Gibson situation but I think the gist is that they’re not making enough profit to meet their current/future financing costs. So using that example, to me there’s two potential means of rectifying that, assuming the product stays the same 

- Sell more units at the same margin 
- Make more margin on the same units

I don’t know what a real figure actually is, but if you’re looking to do either, then surely cutting out the middle man’s 20% is going to achieve it long term. 

It won’t happen obviously but let’s just say the only place to buy a new Gibson now is Gibson. Is that really going to affect sales of a high end product massively? Especially if prices are say 10% lower. If you really want a new Gibson you’re still going to do it, aren’t you?

I guess they would lose sales of those who wander into a guitar shop with £3k in their pocket and don’t know what they want. But is that really going to be a big proportion of their sales?

I can see why a lot of smaller companies need a dealer network to get their product exposed, but brands as big as Fender and Gibson? You’ve got to think they would be able to - if inclined to do so - market and sell their own product directly without the need of a middle man? 

Whitecat

Bear in mind Gibson’s financial problems have nothing to do with guitars, despite people blaming robo-tuners for the situation they find themselves in. Guitars are (relatively) high-margin goods - profitable for them and will continue to be - as a segment. There’s no adjustment to that formula which will save them in the short term. 

The problem is they are not profitable enough to offset the problems caused by all their stupid tech acquisitions. 

Anyone who buys the business today has to take on that whole stable, with all the debt. 

This is why I would guess they will tank - bankruptcy will allow them to shed those parts of the business, get rid of the current board and hopefully sell the guitar side to someone who cares about it. Hopefully. 

BRISTOL86

Whitecat said:

Bear in mind Gibson’s financial problems have nothing to do with guitars, despite people blaming robo-tuners for the situation they find themselves in. Guitars are (relatively) high-margin goods - profitable for them and will continue to be - as a segment. There’s no adjustment to that formula which will save them in the short term. 

The problem is they are not profitable enough to offset the problems caused by all their stupid tech acquisitions. 

This is why I would guess they will tank - bankruptcy will allow them to shed those parts of the business, get rid of the current board and hopefully sell the guitar side to someone who cares about it. Hopefully. 

Ah fair enough. Selling more guitars (or making more per guitar) can’t hurt though! 

Jez6345789

There are a couple of things that happens in my world that happen in the guitar world.

state or regional subsidies a  best selling product gets a 15% of the cost under written by the Chinese province or local system.

the cost of running a factory in a Corona is way higher, power land transport costs etc etc.

i also think that the direct model would be a good thing for a lot of guitars but few want to try and break their brand that way.

the real world differences , for a lot of guitarists it does not matter but I went down a row of 5 PRS 594’s a couple of weeks ago. Still looking for a keeper and PRS pride themselves on consistancy and none of them were bad all felt much the same but sonically through an amp two sounded noticeably different and I don’t have the sort of OCD bat ears some players have. None sounded bad but two were like different guitars I repeated it 3 times it was not dramatic but two had more upper mids and top end. that for some people that would be enough to keep them from buying blind.

also if you launched a new brand as internet only you would spend a lot early on in online marketing to break the brand.

also running a successful online business requires knowledgable support staff again a big cost.

Also in the EU the distant selling directive was designed to cool the Wild West low cost sales that were driving retail out of business from the Internet.

you buy a 2k guitar online the cost that has to be built into cover returns shipping, people just wanting to try one and then sending it back. The cost of checking and cleaning up those guitars is not for free. Dealing with that is in the country of sale so expensive western labour and a work force that has a few people being able to reset up that guitar to resell able condition.

the internet direct is not as low cost these days as you would expect.

BRISTOL86

All good points @Jez6345789

guitars4you

Jez6345789 said:

the real world differences , for a lot of guitarists it does not matter but I went down a row of 5 PRS 594’s a couple of weeks ago. Still looking for a keeper and PRS pride themselves on consistancy and none of them were bad all felt much the same but sonically through an amp two sounded noticeably different and I don’t have the sort of OCD bat ears some players have. None sounded bad but two were like different guitars I repeated it 3 times it was not dramatic but two had more upper mids and top end. that for some people that would be enough to keep them from buying blind.

With only half a discerning ear, this is the bit that you pick up on when trying 2-5 guitars in store - Yes none of them are bad, so if you purchased one via the web and picked it on its aesthetic basis then you would not receive a poor guitar - But try 2-5 in store, side by side and the finer nuances are audible enough for you to favour one over an other, for whatever reason that is - Yet this way of buying is now dininishing

impmann

Jez6345789 said:

you buy a 2k guitar online the cost that has to be built into cover returns shipping, people just wanting to try one and then sending it back. The cost of checking and cleaning up those guitars is not for free. Dealing with that is in the country of sale so expensive western labour and a work force that has a few people being able to reset up that guitar to resell able condition.

Interesting observation.

As someone that has worked doing *excatly this* in the past, you'd be surprised as to the number of folks that can do this and are employed (usually on a gig basis) for this. Plus you break  it down into skilled and unskilled tasks (if you are doing it in bulk) it can be cost effective. For example, you don't pay a tech at a tech's wages to clean and pack guitars - even restringing a guitar can be done by unskilled workers if trained to complete the task (I've trained temporary staff to do that), after all its not rocket science. 

BRISTOL86

guitars4you said:

Jez6345789 said:

the real world differences , for a lot of guitarists it does not matter but I went down a row of 5 PRS 594’s a couple of weeks ago. Still looking for a keeper and PRS pride themselves on consistancy and none of them were bad all felt much the same but sonically through an amp two sounded noticeably different and I don’t have the sort of OCD bat ears some players have. None sounded bad but two were like different guitars I repeated it 3 times it was not dramatic but two had more upper mids and top end. that for some people that would be enough to keep them from buying blind.

With only half a discerning ear, this is the bit that you pick up on when trying 2-5 guitars in store - Yes none of them are bad, so if you purchased one via the web and picked it on its aesthetic basis then you would not receive a poor guitar - But try 2-5 in store, side by side and the finer nuances are audible enough for you to favour one over an other, for whatever reason that is - Yet this way of buying is now dininishing

In Bristol you’re lucky if the shop has one of what you might like let alone 5!  

pmbomb

My hunch is there is no benefit cutting out dealers because most people buying new buy to a budget rather than a model. They're going to spend the budget regardless.

New guitars over a few hundred quid are a luxury item not a commodity.

guitars4you

impmann said:

There is a school of thought that goes like this...

• If all the manufacturers sold direct through online sales the stores would revolt and stop selling them.
• HOWEVER, what are they going to replace those guitars with?
• As he-who-can't-be-named in Warwickshire has proved there are other brands that provide similar products but 1) they aren't as desireable because 2) guitarists, by and large, want to buy the guitars played by their heroes and 3) there are concerns about the resale values because of 1 & 2. So its a limited market and its not an easy ride.
• So what happens?
• Consumers vote with their feet.
• Grudgingly they buy direct. They (or their friends) have a reasonable experience with it and pass that experience onto others. Momentum grows.
• Shops struggle. They've invested in these 'other brands' that will play the old-skool game but fewer people are buying these as previously found with the "big US brands".
• The manufacturers realise that they can sell *less* product and make *more* money - if they are very smart they employ 3rd party solutions to fulfill the orders so their only overheads are warehousing and 3rd party costs (which will always be lower than the store's margins... they just are). Plus in the US, they are no longer beholdent to a big chain who dictate pricing, availability and products... meaning they can be more agile and launch product that guitarists/musicians want, rather than twats in suits who know bugger all... (final part is a direct quote from someone within the industry).
• The stores that have over extended themselves will then fold - some *big* scalps there.
• The customer experience is actually *better* as the feedback goes direct to the manufacturer and if this isn't acted on, sales suffer - there's no 'buffer' where the manufacturer can dump stock into stores' warehouses to free up cash flow...

I'm not saying this will definitely happen but we are already seeing the seeds of this being sown.

pretty much all valid comments and an appropriate wiz

The select major brands will either launch first in the USA with their own on-line site and/or showroom, or indeed start a test case in say Australia/Canada - If Canada they will insist, as a test case, that goods are only available to ship to Canadian addresses - So not initially a world wide policy - In fact if/when they run a full world wide buy direct policy, you won't find that in the UK/EU we will be buying direct from the USA at USA prices - You'll still buy via the UK/EU warehouse, with appropriate costs built in for tax, vat, shipping, cites etc

If we take the UK market and the large/popular brands like Marshall, Fender, Gibson, PRS, Yamaha etc - Manufactures will then adopt their own on-line store, with the possibility of an Apple style 'showroom' in a few key locations (London, Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow) then the following criteria will follow

The major stores like PMT, Dawsons, Andertons will still sell the major brands - As you mentioned above they have no option - But the market will be controlled 'Apple style' by the manufacture - Stocking plan, pricing, showroom merchandising - Chances are a reduction in the dealers margin, which again is a policy that Apple have adopted - But they will still be partners to the brand - They have no option regarding the major brands - The dealer will still enhance their store/stock profile with additional brands that still require a bricks/mortar profile, probably at better margins

Maybe an option of the manufacturing installing their own showroom in a few larger UK dealers existing showrooms - Concession style as utilised by the likes of Debenhams, amomgst others

The manufacture might still offer 'custom options' that are exclusive to on-line and/or their own showroom - maybe a waiting time on say certain colours, neck profile, fret size etc, but a custom option tick box will be available - Note, that unless the manufacture chooses otherwise, that this will probably not allow you to take advantage of current LDR as it is now 'custom built' to your spec (not forsaking any repair issues) - Only applicable to custom orders and not stock off the shelve items

Assuming manufactures sell direct - Then as far as returns/repairs/old stock/end of line deals go - Manufactures will either run their own clearance promotions, or even move such stock to 'independent' retailers, at seriously reduced prices, who don't mind offering such stock on a 'factory outlet' basis - Such dealers will buy job lot pallets and repair/sell accordingly

Direct selling, be it via their own store and/or web site - Then no part exchange options available and no friendly dealer to offer additional check-up/set-up, so you'll only get a factory set up - Chances are existing UK dealers, who still support the brands like Fender and Gibson, will not offer part exchanges on such lines either, due to reduced margin on such brands 

Currently Fender have an on-line shop - But at this stage I feel it is a token gesture and is there as an option - It is not a major programme and certainly does not control the market place - It is IMO a case of them testing the market - You wait until they want to launch this as a major tool and the whole marketing programme kicking in accordingly, be it via advertising in the guitar mags, as well as all the social media sites - Currently Fender are only selling at their own SRP (suggested retail price) which they put into place for their appropriate UK stockists - At this stage they are not 'really' under minding the dealer, it is just an option that runs along side a dealers 'bricks and mortar stocking arrangement' - If they opted a full blown sell direct policy , you'll end up with far less dealers participating in the current dealership programme , for many reasons - And a pricing policy that will see prices decreased, even if it is only 10-15%, from the existing SRP

For small dealers like me, the above won't be an issue - I can wheal/deal and continue with used products and still make a sensible living - But it will have an impact on many other independent UK dealers

I could add far more to this but getting to long already

jpfamps

guitars4you said:

If you look at the Apple model of effectively selling direct, either in store or via mail order, then their prices are the same as buying the same item from another outlet - ie Apple control the pricing but they don't undercut the trading partners

Granted an in store Apple showroom has far greater overheads - but if Apple sell a  product at £1000 direct to the consumer, then their margin is higher than selling the same item at cost price to a dealer/other retail outlet - Therefore if Fender/Gibson adapted a similar policy then no reason to say prices would fall, the supplier/manufacture just increases their margin

Granted there are a few exceptions (Martin, Mesa Boogie are 2 examples) many major guitar brands/products are now sold into EU/UK via their own distribution outlets - PRS, Gibson, Fender, Boss, Roland, Yamaha etc etc - So other than admin costs of running a unit in the EU/UK, there is no 3rd party costs involved regarding an independent distributor who has to make a profit as well as paying operating costs - ie PRS UK/EU is now the same as PRS USA

Apple's model is completely different than the guitar business; if you are not an Apple store you have to buy goods at retail and then get a rebate after 30 days. Under these circumstances it's almost impossible for a dealer to afford giving a discount.

jpfamps

BRISTOL86 said:

crunchman said:

BRISTOL86 said:

crunchman said:

BRISTOL86 said:

In this day and age, why aren’t major manufacturers selling direct to consumers? It’s obvious that a great number of people buy guitars online, unseen. Why aren’t manufacturers trying to cut the middle man out, at least partially? 

Because I won't spend 2 grand on a guitar without trying it first.  I'm not the only one.

They are made of wood, and they vary.  You can get two of the same model with the same CNC cut bodies, the same pickups wound by computer controlled machinery, and they will not sound the same.

Yea but lots of people obviously will judging by the online guitar market. I wasn’t suggesting it being the only way to buy a guitar, but give consumers the choice.

The article suggests middle man costs are a large part of the high price - so if you can cut that down and get your product out there at a lower price whilst maintaining the same margin, why wouldn’t you? Those who want the ‘middle man’ experience can pay a premium for it.....

If they undercut their dealers, there will be no dealers.  Those of us who want to try a guitar first, will go elsewhere.

Not sure that’s true. I mean there’s already places you can buy a £1k guitar for a couple of hundred quid cheaper than a bricks and mortar store. Yet millions of transactions still happen in music stores. Buying direct online is hardly a new trend. 

Can it be called undercutting when it’s your own product? The manufacturer ultimately sets the price in establishing it’s minimum acceptable margin. Shouldn’t it be a manufacturer led strategy rather than worrying about what your dealers might think?! 

To pose the question another way - and ignoring the actual product for a minute - if you can get your product to your consumers (whatever it is) without the aid of a middle man taking a cut...why wouldn’t you? 

If I could buy a Strat from Fender for £800 or PMT for £1,000 then depending on my needs at the time, I may do one or the other. Consumer choice. Fender get the same amount of profit either way. 

The idea that dealers add no value to goods, and anything they do can be done cost free by the manufacturer is nonsense.

Dealing with customers is very time consuming.

The dealer is also the first point of contact when anything goes wrong. Many dealers offer extras such as set ups, or even deal with minor warranty repairs at their expense. 

Furthermore many manufacturers would rather deal with a small number of dealers buying a relatively large amount of guitars than a large number of people buying one or two pieces. 

guitars4you

jpfamps said:

guitars4you said:

If you look at the Apple model of effectively selling direct, either in store or via mail order, then their prices are the same as buying the same item from another outlet - ie Apple control the pricing but they don't undercut the trading partners

Granted an in store Apple showroom has far greater overheads - but if Apple sell a  product at £1000 direct to the consumer, then their margin is higher than selling the same item at cost price to a dealer/other retail outlet - Therefore if Fender/Gibson adapted a similar policy then no reason to say prices would fall, the supplier/manufacture just increases their margin

Granted there are a few exceptions (Martin, Mesa Boogie are 2 examples) many major guitar brands/products are now sold into EU/UK via their own distribution outlets - PRS, Gibson, Fender, Boss, Roland, Yamaha etc etc - So other than admin costs of running a unit in the EU/UK, there is no 3rd party costs involved regarding an independent distributor who has to make a profit as well as paying operating costs - ie PRS UK/EU is now the same as PRS USA

Apple's model is completely different than the guitar business; if you are not an Apple store you have to buy goods at retail and then get a rebate after 30 days. Under these circumstances it's almost impossible for a dealer to afford giving a discount.

They won't be allowed to offer a discount otherwise Apple will limit their supply - they control the market place regarding supply/pricing - Yes I know the dealers margin is based on retail less rebate, but the point still stands that Apple themselves will have a greater product margin selling to the end user, as against offering a 'cost' price to another dealer/stockist - I understand it is a small margin to such stockists, but decent turnover and pulls customer through the doors

When I say the Apple model, I also mean a dedicated showroom that offers the full line up of products and accessories, complete with sales support, after sales, extended warranties, training etc  - No cherry picking the lines you want to stock - Imagine a Fender dedicated on-line shop with a few dedicated Fender showrooms that totally support the brand - the whole shopping experience would be a powerful statement

Jez6345789

@guitars4you you have a very good handle on the guitar market well said.

A dedicated Fender or PRS apple style store and a strong online presence would be an interesting model.

that sai you would have to fight your way through the sporty youths to get near a guitar like you do in the Apple Store lol

streethawk

guitars4you said:

jpfamps said:

guitars4you said:

If you look at the Apple model of effectively selling direct, either in store or via mail order, then their prices are the same as buying the same item from another outlet - ie Apple control the pricing but they don't undercut the trading partners

Granted an in store Apple showroom has far greater overheads - but if Apple sell a  product at £1000 direct to the consumer, then their margin is higher than selling the same item at cost price to a dealer/other retail outlet - Therefore if Fender/Gibson adapted a similar policy then no reason to say prices would fall, the supplier/manufacture just increases their margin

Granted there are a few exceptions (Martin, Mesa Boogie are 2 examples) many major guitar brands/products are now sold into EU/UK via their own distribution outlets - PRS, Gibson, Fender, Boss, Roland, Yamaha etc etc - So other than admin costs of running a unit in the EU/UK, there is no 3rd party costs involved regarding an independent distributor who has to make a profit as well as paying operating costs - ie PRS UK/EU is now the same as PRS USA

Apple's model is completely different than the guitar business; if you are not an Apple store you have to buy goods at retail and then get a rebate after 30 days. Under these circumstances it's almost impossible for a dealer to afford giving a discount.

They won't be allowed to offer a discount otherwise Apple will limit their supply - they control the market place regarding supply/pricing - Yes I know the dealers margin is based on retail less rebate, but the point still stands that Apple themselves will have a greater product margin selling to the end user, as against offering a 'cost' price to another dealer/stockist - I understand it is a small margin to such stockists, but decent turnover and pulls customer through the doors

When I say the Apple model, I also mean a dedicated showroom that offers the full line up of products and accessories, complete with sales support, after sales, extended warranties, training etc  - No cherry picking the lines you want to stock - Imagine a Fender dedicated on-line shop with a few dedicated Fender showrooms that totally support the brand - the whole shopping experience would be a powerful statement

The only problem I can see with the Apple model comparison is the sheer size of the respective products. The Apple stores seem to be located in malls and are absolutely rammed with customers. 

I don't see Fender selling as many guitars per day as Apple do Iphones, and I think they'd need more floorspace even for display purposes - certainly for backroom stock. So they'd probably be investing more than Apple, for way less profit.

The one thing the bricks and mortar outfits have going for them is the diversity of their stock, from different brands to different instruments. And they don't seem to be located in malls.

Clashman

You can buy a solid wood acousic guitar on Ebay for £230 which isn't bad so if they can do it for that
price the extra labour and whatever goes into it must cost a fortune!, but at the end of the day how hard
is it to copy a guitar exactly is it harder than copying an I Phone?

guitars4you

streethawk said:

guitars4you said:

jpfamps said:

guitars4you said:

If you look at the Apple model of effectively selling direct, either in store or via mail order, then their prices are the same as buying the same item from another outlet - ie Apple control the pricing but they don't undercut the trading partners

Granted an in store Apple showroom has far greater overheads - but if Apple sell a  product at £1000 direct to the consumer, then their margin is higher than selling the same item at cost price to a dealer/other retail outlet - Therefore if Fender/Gibson adapted a similar policy then no reason to say prices would fall, the supplier/manufacture just increases their margin

Granted there are a few exceptions (Martin, Mesa Boogie are 2 examples) many major guitar brands/products are now sold into EU/UK via their own distribution outlets - PRS, Gibson, Fender, Boss, Roland, Yamaha etc etc - So other than admin costs of running a unit in the EU/UK, there is no 3rd party costs involved regarding an independent distributor who has to make a profit as well as paying operating costs - ie PRS UK/EU is now the same as PRS USA

Apple's model is completely different than the guitar business; if you are not an Apple store you have to buy goods at retail and then get a rebate after 30 days. Under these circumstances it's almost impossible for a dealer to afford giving a discount.

They won't be allowed to offer a discount otherwise Apple will limit their supply - they control the market place regarding supply/pricing - Yes I know the dealers margin is based on retail less rebate, but the point still stands that Apple themselves will have a greater product margin selling to the end user, as against offering a 'cost' price to another dealer/stockist - I understand it is a small margin to such stockists, but decent turnover and pulls customer through the doors

When I say the Apple model, I also mean a dedicated showroom that offers the full line up of products and accessories, complete with sales support, after sales, extended warranties, training etc  - No cherry picking the lines you want to stock - Imagine a Fender dedicated on-line shop with a few dedicated Fender showrooms that totally support the brand - the whole shopping experience would be a powerful statement

The only problem I can see with the Apple model comparison is the sheer size of the respective products. The Apple stores seem to be located in malls and are absolutely rammed with customers. 

I don't see Fender selling as many guitars per day as Apple do Iphones, and I think they'd need more floorspace even for display purposes - certainly for backroom stock. So they'd probably be investing more than Apple, for way less profit.

The one thing the bricks and mortar outfits have going for them is the diversity of their stock, from different brands to different instruments. And they don't seem to be located in malls.

The vast selection of stock is an issue within the Fender range especially when you add colour options to that - therefore options are as follows on a direct to customer basis

Reduce the depth of the range, including certain colour options on certain models both in store and on-line

Reduce the depth of the range in store and only offer certain models/colours on line

Granted the Apple showrooms are in busy malls - Fender could look at this option, but more likely to choose a larger showroom/warehouse on the same trading estate as say Trafford Park, or other large shopping malls in the key major locations etc etc

Agree guitars sales are minnows in relation to the size of Apple  but that is the market place we are in - it doesn't mean it won't be profitable

The Fender experience won't be just about guitars/amps - add to that all the whole selection of Fender apparel - coffee mugs, mouse mats, t-shirts etc etc that are all about that brand as well and will sell to non-guitar players - Look at the Harley Davidson apparel - potential big margins and no discounts

BRISTOL86

jpfamps said:

BRISTOL86 said:

crunchman said:

BRISTOL86 said:

crunchman said:

BRISTOL86 said:

In this day and age, why aren’t major manufacturers selling direct to consumers? It’s obvious that a great number of people buy guitars online, unseen. Why aren’t manufacturers trying to cut the middle man out, at least partially? 

Because I won't spend 2 grand on a guitar without trying it first.  I'm not the only one.

They are made of wood, and they vary.  You can get two of the same model with the same CNC cut bodies, the same pickups wound by computer controlled machinery, and they will not sound the same.

Yea but lots of people obviously will judging by the online guitar market. I wasn’t suggesting it being the only way to buy a guitar, but give consumers the choice.

The article suggests middle man costs are a large part of the high price - so if you can cut that down and get your product out there at a lower price whilst maintaining the same margin, why wouldn’t you? Those who want the ‘middle man’ experience can pay a premium for it.....

If they undercut their dealers, there will be no dealers.  Those of us who want to try a guitar first, will go elsewhere.

Not sure that’s true. I mean there’s already places you can buy a £1k guitar for a couple of hundred quid cheaper than a bricks and mortar store. Yet millions of transactions still happen in music stores. Buying direct online is hardly a new trend. 

Can it be called undercutting when it’s your own product? The manufacturer ultimately sets the price in establishing it’s minimum acceptable margin. Shouldn’t it be a manufacturer led strategy rather than worrying about what your dealers might think?! 

To pose the question another way - and ignoring the actual product for a minute - if you can get your product to your consumers (whatever it is) without the aid of a middle man taking a cut...why wouldn’t you? 

If I could buy a Strat from Fender for £800 or PMT for £1,000 then depending on my needs at the time, I may do one or the other. Consumer choice. Fender get the same amount of profit either way. 

The idea that dealers add no value to goods, and anything they do can be done cost free by the manufacturer is nonsense.

Dealing with customers is very time consuming.

The dealer is also the first point of contact when anything goes wrong. Many dealers offer extras such as set ups, or even deal with minor warranty repairs at their expense. 

Furthermore many manufacturers would rather deal with a small number of dealers buying a relatively large amount of guitars than a large number of people buying one or two pieces. 

For the record I was never suggesting they could do what a dealer does, cost free. I was questioning whether they could do it at a lesser cost in the long run. But I do appreciate that there’s a million reasons they might not want to. 

jeztone2

I do wonder about major brands pricing. When Fender brought some Fender Richie Kotzen Stratocasters into Europe in 2016. I bought one immediately because they did them for over £300 cheaper than they are in Japan! So it worked out the same cost as buying a grey import used one off EBay. 

NelsonP

I buy guitars very infrequently. When I do I like to try them out first. I've bought all of mine from shops for precisely this reason.

I am prepared to pay more when I do so because:
1.I can try out various options against each other, in the same place and at the same time.
2. The shop will often throw in extras like maybe a good setup or at least some strings, a strap etc and they generally offer good after sales service and peace of mind
3. The very best shops have dedicated rooms or booths for trying gear out and knowledgeable staff who will encourage you to try stuff that you'd otherwise never consider. If they know you are a serious buyer (and many seem to have a sixth sense for this) they will often indulge you and let you try instruments at a higher price range than what you're considering.

That first point doesnt work if the manufacturers start selling direct. And you would be limited to trying gear from a single manufacturer which would suck.

I hope that the traditional retailers can survive against the online box shifters. In many cases their margin is hard earned and entirely justifiable. I'll continue to try to support this as much as i can.