Corbyn smear campaign

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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1420
    scrumhalf said:
    At an NEC meeting on anti-semitism today, can you guess which group was asked to remain outside?

    Yup, Jewish Labour Movement. They are discussing anti-semitism without the only Jewish Labour affiliate.

    You could not make it up.

    Presumably that's a smear as well.
    I'll wait for more details to emerge. For example, I'm not seeing anything on which groups actually did attend. If, say, a Muslims for Labour group was allowed in and the JLM weren't, then it's pretty clear. 
    Apparently it was an "administrative error".
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    jpfamps said:
    Apparently it was an "administrative error".
    So they said...
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1420
    jpfamps said:
    Apparently it was an "administrative error".
    So they said...
    It's claimed that Jennie Formby says JLM were sent an invitation to the meeting last month by accident.


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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    jpfamps said:
    jpfamps said:
    Apparently it was an "administrative error".
    So they said...
    It's claimed that Jennie Formby says JLM were sent an invitation to the meeting last month by accident.


    Yep. Seen all that. It's possible. I'd like to know who else was invited to this working group. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • DarnWeightDarnWeight Frets: 881
    edited May 9
    FT reporting this morning on a study showing how people's generally positive attitudes to a set of policies put to them are negatively affected when they're then told that they are Labour/Corbyn policies.  
    In the focus group in Southampton, the men were also keen on a cap on the difference between the pay of executives and their employees, and the nationalisation of the water, energy and rail industries. But when asked whether the policies belonged to the Conservative or Labour party, three quickly replied in succession: “Conservative”.

    When the men were told that the policies belonged to Mr Corbyn’s Labour party, not Theresa May’s Conservatives, they went cold, with one calling them “rubbish”.
      
    “Their sums don’t add up,” said another participant, adding: “Although we haven’t seen the sums. We’re assuming they’re not going to add up.”

    Another said the ideas could not be delivered “without ruining the country”.

    It's paywalled, but being reported elsewhere (Guardian live blog link here).  Just goes to show the cumulative effect of the relentless media messaging with regards Labour (specifically Corbyn) and the economy.

    New fangled trading feedback link right here!
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    edited May 9
    People are sheep, its that simple, always have been and always will be...........

    (I will caveat that with the fact that not all of us are obviously)

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1420
    Boromedic said:
    People are sheep, its that simple, always have been and always will be...........

    (I will caveat that with the fact that not all of us are obviously)
    But of course you've got the discernment not to be.......
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    edited May 9
    No, I've fallen foul of the same things, I voted for Blair, everybody is capable of it lets be honest. Why do loads of people buy Apple products when they have no clue why? Why do loads of people perpetuate myths about gear that have been around since I first walked into a guitar shop? Same reason as the mass media filling peoples heads with the idea that Corbyn bad, May good.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    FT reporting this morning on a study showing how people's generally positive attitudes to a set of policies put to them are negatively affected when they're then told that they are Labour/Corbyn policies.  
    In the focus group in Southampton, the men were also keen on a cap on the difference between the pay of executives and their employees, and the nationalisation of the water, energy and rail industries. But when asked whether the policies belonged to the Conservative or Labour party, three quickly replied in succession: “Conservative”.

    When the men were told that the policies belonged to Mr Corbyn’s Labour party, not Theresa May’s Conservatives, they went cold, with one calling them “rubbish”.
      
    “Their sums don’t add up,” said another participant, adding: “Although we haven’t seen the sums. We’re assuming they’re not going to add up.”

    Another said the ideas could not be delivered “without ruining the country”.

    It's paywalled, but being reported elsewhere (Guardian live blog link here).  Just goes to show the cumulative effect of the relentless media messaging with regards Labour (specifically Corbyn) and the economy.

    We've seen this clearly with energy price capping. We also saw it with taking back land. When Miliband announced it, it was a return to old socialism. When Boris announced it in 2013 as London Mayor, the reaction was different. 

    https://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Screen-Shot-2017-05-09-at-14.38.16.png

    And I think everyone on this forum no matter your political inclinations would agree that Corbynism gets far little positive coverage in the media compared to the primary alternative currently in power. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    edited May 9
    I'd suggest not everyone based on some posts, although I'm with you.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1420
    Boromedic said:
    No, I've fallen foul of the same things, I voted for Blair, everybody is capable of it lets be honest. Why do loads of people buy Apple products when they have no clue why? Why do loads of people perpetuate myths about gear that have been around since I first walked into a guitar shop? Same reason as the mass media filling peoples heads with the idea that Corbyn bad, May good.

    I actually I think most people's thought patterns (and there are plenty of studies to support this), are that they have decided what the answer is and then look for "evidence" to support their position.

    To quote JK Galbraith: "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

    Incidentally May is hardly getting sparkling press, even from the usual suspects.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6259
    true May is getting a kicking now, but the tory press gave her enormous support with no real basis for it, until she totally demonstrated that she is not at all strong and stable. Whereas no matter what Corbyn says or does, he automatically gets bad press.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    edited May 9
    Ahhhh yes but does she get as bad a press as Corbyn is the question? The changing of the mind thing has been proven you're correct, an already deep seated idea is protected like the crown jewels by the bodies natural defences. However a relentless trickle down campaign of Corbyn bad, Corbyn bad, Corbyn bad, must be altering peoples perceptions of him as the example above from the FT has shown.

    My theory is it works like this, they aren't saying Labour is bad, however most people have an innate fear of complete socialism, you see many myths perpetuated about this for instance. (I'm not saying 100% socialism is good btw) Therefore the press have targeted him as a socialist and that's why people hate him. They've been quite clever with how they've done it, getting people who would be far better off under his leadership to vote against their best interests is quite startling.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    jpfamps said:

    I actually I think most people's thought patterns (and there are plenty of studies to support this), are that they have decided what the answer is and then look for "evidence" to support their position.

    To quote JK Galbraith: "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

    Incidentally May is hardly getting sparkling press, even from the usual suspects.
    And that is the risk of coming to conclusions far too quickly, something that is easy to do with the speed at which modern media operates. 

    In the case of May, the rather dull press comes from the incompetence of her own government and some Brexit feelings from that press. That's a bit different to the press attention we saw given to Ed Miliband for instance. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    Boromedic said:
    I'd suggest not everyone based on some posts, although I'm with you.
    There will be some disagreeers but you simply have to look at the media in question. What media can you say is pro-Corbyn outside of the Mirror and the Morning Star? The Graun certainly isn't balls out for Corbyn, the Murdoch world isn't, the BBC isn't, a lot of Corbynites don't think Channel 4 gives them a fair crack of the whip, we know what the ExTeleMail axis is like. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    Yeah I've seen some of the charts doing the rounds about media bias, how Corbyn has managed to get as much support as he has against the backdrop of such limited media backing is actually quite astonishing!

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    edited May 9
    VimFuego said:
    true May is getting a kicking now, but the tory press gave her enormous support with no real basis for it, until she totally demonstrated that she is not at all strong and stable. Whereas no matter what Corbyn says or does, he automatically gets bad press.
    They did indeed. There was general praise for her snap election, how it was a strong decision and she'd wipe the floor with her immediate rival. 

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Daily-Mail-May-manifesto.jpg
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9uhFpxXsAAJiNG.jpg
    https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/c8S8DJaBRbSkp0tqOVYe_Daily Star.jpg
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9ueismXkAAp5y9.jp
    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/express_front-628x800.jpg
    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/sunmail.jpg

    When you combine their sales figures compared to the newspaper industry as a whole, it is not unfair to say that Conservative views dominate. 

    NB: I'm not approaching this as a Corbynite. I didn't vote Labour last week and wouldn't do so at the next GE in this area. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16993
    Labour are going to shut down the press when they get power and not before time. A national disgrace ..
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Which kinda goes back to my point about the Local elections  -  where was the evidence pre-election that Labour were going to wipe out the tories?

    When they achieved what is in reality a minor improvement, that can then be pitched as a disastrous performance. 
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1420
    edited May 9
    Boromedic said:
    Yeah I've seen some of the charts doing the rounds about media bias, how Corbyn has managed to get as much support as he has against the backdrop of such limited media backing is actually quite astonishing!
    That's for the very phenomenon I pointed out above; people have largely already made their mind up.

    It's been found the more you attack people's beliefs, the more entrenched in their beliefs they become.

    We've seen plenty of examples of this in threads on the very forum, eg the flat earth and hi-fi cable threads.

    It's my view that people (generally) engage with media that confirms that they are "right". If you are enraged by the Daily Mail you don't read it.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16993
    jpfamps said:
    Boromedic said:
    Yeah I've seen some of the charts doing the rounds about media bias, how Corbyn has managed to get as much support as he has against the backdrop of such limited media backing is actually quite astonishing!
    That's for the very phenomenon I pointed out above; people have largely already made their mind up.

    It's been found the more you attack people's beliefs, the more entrenched in their beliefs they become.

    We've seen plenty of examples of this in threads on the very forum, eg the flat earth and hi-fi cable threads.

    It's my view that people (generally) engage with media that confirms that they are "right". If you are enraged by the Daily Mail you don't read it.
    Older people remember him from his early days .. tax the rich, talking to the IRA, not backing the Falklands war etc.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Fretwired said:
    jpfamps said:
    Boromedic said:
    Yeah I've seen some of the charts doing the rounds about media bias, how Corbyn has managed to get as much support as he has against the backdrop of such limited media backing is actually quite astonishing!
    That's for the very phenomenon I pointed out above; people have largely already made their mind up.

    It's been found the more you attack people's beliefs, the more entrenched in their beliefs they become.

    We've seen plenty of examples of this in threads on the very forum, eg the flat earth and hi-fi cable threads.

    It's my view that people (generally) engage with media that confirms that they are "right". If you are enraged by the Daily Mail you don't read it.
    Older people remember him from his early days .. tax the rich, talking to the IRA, not backing the Falklands war etc.
    I doubt he's remembered - more getting a constant stream of stories about the terrorist sympathiser etc 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 32861
    FT reporting this morning on a study showing how people's generally positive attitudes to a set of policies put to them are negatively affected when they're then told that they are Labour/Corbyn policies.  
    In the focus group in Southampton, the men were also keen on a cap on the difference between the pay of executives and their employees, and the nationalisation of the water, energy and rail industries. But when asked whether the policies belonged to the Conservative or Labour party, three quickly replied in succession: “Conservative”.
    If anything, that does just show how clueless some members of the electorate are. Anyone who has been paying attention at any point in the last forty years would know those aren't Conservative policies.

    When the men were told that the policies belonged to Mr Corbyn’s Labour party, not Theresa May’s Conservatives, they went cold, with one calling them “rubbish”.
      
    “Their sums don’t add up,” said another participant, adding: “Although we haven’t seen the sums. We’re assuming they’re not going to add up.”

    Another said the ideas could not be delivered “without ruining the country”.

    It's paywalled, but being reported elsewhere (Guardian live blog link here).  Just goes to show the cumulative effect of the relentless media messaging with regards Labour (specifically Corbyn) and the economy.

    It has been remarkably effective on an almost Goebbels-like level of propaganda. The true historical evidence is quite the opposite - although not perfect, Labour have in fact managed the economy better than the Tories in general.

    Anyone who is tempted to laugh at that should look at the official UK government figures on borrowing and repayment, and on the number and depth of recessions that have occurred under governments of each party since WWII.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    jpfamps said:
    Boromedic said:
    Yeah I've seen some of the charts doing the rounds about media bias, how Corbyn has managed to get as much support as he has against the backdrop of such limited media backing is actually quite astonishing!
    That's for the very phenomenon I pointed out above; people have largely already made their mind up.

    It's been found the more you attack people's beliefs, the more entrenched in their beliefs they become.

    We've seen plenty of examples of this in threads on the very forum, eg the flat earth and hi-fi cable threads.

    It's my view that people (generally) engage with media that confirms that they are "right". If you are enraged by the Daily Mail you don't read it.

    So if Corbyn's followers are entrenched, what does that say for the followers of the opposition who lap up all the attacks?

    In the USA and Britain, we have two countries where the right-wing press is powerful. Over here, it's more newspapers, over there it's TV. In both countries the outright socialists in Corbyn and Sanders were both mocked in their respective leadership runs. Sanders failed: Corbyn succeeded and then the attacks really started. In America the right wing press attacked and attacked and ultimately failed when the successful candidate for their party attacked back. Is it any wonder our countries both have an awful lot of polarisation in society and politics?

    You are right that people tend to engage with that which they know (another reason for our divisions in society). Personally I find myself reading a lot more of the right wing media because I want to understand their positions. Having Polly Toynbee tell me in the Graun that Toby Young is a twat isn't enough: I want to read Young's words and come to my own conclusion*

    *he's still a twat. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16993
    edited May 10


    So if Corbyn's followers are entrenched, what does that say for the followers of the opposition who lap up all the attacks?

    In the USA and Britain, we have two countries where the right-wing press is powerful. Over here, it's more newspapers, over there it's TV. In both countries the outright socialists in Corbyn and Sanders were both mocked in their respective leadership runs. Sanders failed: Corbyn succeeded and then the attacks really started. In America the right wing press attacked and attacked and ultimately failed when the successful candidate for their party attacked back. Is it any wonder our countries both have an awful lot of polarisation in society and politics?

    You are right that people tend to engage with that which they know (another reason for our divisions in society). Personally I find myself reading a lot more of the right wing media because I want to understand their positions. Having Polly Toynbee tell me in the Graun that Toby Young is a twat isn't enough: I want to read Young's words and come to my own conclusion*

    *he's still a twat. 
    Newspapers have very little real power these days. Circulations have consistently fallen to the point where it's older people who mostly buy newspapers and they're only going to buy ones that conform to their world view. Young people get their news via the web, FB and so forth. For the first time political parties can actually engage with the electorate which is what Corbyn did spectacularly and the Tories failed miserably.

    It is wrong to say Corbyn had no media coverage. What Corbyn proved was social media engagement is more important that what the Daily Mail says. With 2% of the voting population dying every year to be replaced by first time voters things are moving Labour's way. Over 70% of under 30s survey said they would vote Labour. The Tories were on under 10%.

    If the Tories don't engage with young voters they are finished but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    The future's red not blue.


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 991
    I thought it was Orange? ;)

    Fingers crossed Fret, hopefully then we might move to a PR system too.

    .....and what to my wondering eyes should appear.....      nothing.......


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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 751
    Fretwired said:


    So if Corbyn's followers are entrenched, what does that say for the followers of the opposition who lap up all the attacks?

    In the USA and Britain, we have two countries where the right-wing press is powerful. Over here, it's more newspapers, over there it's TV. In both countries the outright socialists in Corbyn and Sanders were both mocked in their respective leadership runs. Sanders failed: Corbyn succeeded and then the attacks really started. In America the right wing press attacked and attacked and ultimately failed when the successful candidate for their party attacked back. Is it any wonder our countries both have an awful lot of polarisation in society and politics?

    You are right that people tend to engage with that which they know (another reason for our divisions in society). Personally I find myself reading a lot more of the right wing media because I want to understand their positions. Having Polly Toynbee tell me in the Graun that Toby Young is a twat isn't enough: I want to read Young's words and come to my own conclusion*

    *he's still a twat. 
    Newspapers have very little real power these days. Circulations have consistently fallen to the point where it's older people who mostly buy newspapers and they're only going to buy ones that conform to their world view. Young people get their news via the web, FB and so forth. For the first time political parties can actually engage with the electorate which is what Corbyn did spectacularly and the Tories failed miserably.

    It is wrong to say Corbyn had no media coverage. What Corbyn proved was social media engagement is more important that what the Daily Mail says. With 2% of the voting population dying every year to be replaced by first time voters things are moving Labour's way. Over 70% of under 30s survey said they would vote Labour. The Tories were on under 10%.

    If the Tories don't engage with young voters they are finished but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    The future's red not blue.


    Not sure  I agree with that.  As people get older they tend to get more right wing and voting patterns shift.

    Plus  the constant barage on the radio, tv, newspapers does have an effect on people. its not necessarily a quick impact, but we have a situation where people from all walks of life happily blart out nonsensical soundbites they've been fed by the media.


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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    Fretwired said:
    Newspapers have very little real power these days. Circulations have consistently fallen to the point where it's older people who mostly buy newspapers and they're only going to buy ones that conform to their world view. Young people get their news via the web, FB and so forth. For the first time political parties can actually engage with the electorate which is what Corbyn did spectacularly and the Tories failed miserably.

    It is wrong to say Corbyn had no media coverage. What Corbyn proved was social media engagement is more important that what the Daily Mail says. With 2% of the voting population dying every year to be replaced by first time voters things are moving Labour's way. Over 70% of under 30s survey said they would vote Labour. The Tories were on under 10%.

    If the Tories don't engage with young voters they are finished but they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    The future's red not blue.




    Circulations have dropped, no question. But the messages given out in newspapers are still influential. The front page of a newspaper still has more societal impact than the front page of a website story from Breitbart or The Canary. That battered copy of the Sun being passed around has an impact on more people than the pensioner buying his daily copy of the Sun. When you go into your local Tesco Express, there's a mound of newspapers sat there. Even if they aren't bought, they're advertising a particular political allegiance as surely as the election posters we see in people's front gardens. 

    Young people finding news online: a lot of it still comes from newspapers themselves. It's why the non-paywalled Guardian is influential despite relatively small circulation figures and why the Sun decided to drop the paywall as influence through being tweeted and shared does matter (as shown by the experiment with the standalone Sun Nation politics website from 2015 to 2016).

    I didn't say Corbyn had no media coverage and I don't think anyone else did either. What I said was that the media coverage was overwhelmingly skewed against him.  

    Social media engagement is very important. Vote Leave demonstrated that in 2016 and showed up their rivals grandly in that department. But if you have that alone I don't think it is enough to get you through. It's feasible to suggest that in 2017 the Tories had the newspapers and TV media sewn up and a laughable social media presence, whilst Labour had a very small amount of positive newspaper press coverage and an excellent social media campaign. When you put that against the popular vote figures, it would suggest that you can't rely on one outlet alone.

    In the aftermath of a General Election where the top two were separated by a few percent, where an EU referendum was a few percent, and where the projected national vote share from the recent local elections was 35% each, there is a sense that it's harder to win outright. In that case, it's even more important to have a variety of sources supporting your message in the hope of turning some voting heads. Now the Tories  can count on newspaper support and will surely have a vastly improved social media campaign come the next election. I wonder where Labour would improve.  
    Clarity over quantity.  
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16993
    thomasw88 said:

    Not sure  I agree with that.  As people get older they tend to get more right wing and voting patterns shift.

    Plus  the constant barage on the radio, tv, newspapers does have an effect on people. its not necessarily a quick impact, but we have a situation where people from all walks of life happily blart out nonsensical soundbites they've been fed by the media.


    I'm talking about newspapers not the media in general. The fact is fewer and fewer people read them and those that do are older people who buy a paper out of habit and usually one that supports their viewpoint. Newspapers will be dead in the next 20 years. Some may survive online, but in the 24/7 age of news and busy lives people can't be arsed with them. They are becoming less relevant. Get on a busy commuter train - how many people are reading a newspaper? The Telegraph and Times subscriptions don't generate big revenues and if you hang on on the comment pages (subscribers only) the complaints about the lack of quality grow louder every week.

    And I have one real world example. I run a business networking group in a hotel - we started in the late 1990s and the hotel had a large supply of newspapers delivered everyday. Some for guests who'd asked for them and some to sell and some promos that publishers punted out. They stopped last year. The manager said nobody asked for them any more. The hotel is a newspaper free zone.

    The main reason papers are dying is people are no longer willing to pay for news .. evidence? The newspaper with the biggest UK circulation - Metro. It has a tiny staff, is free and it just aggregates the news from other sources. No opinion pieces. You can just scan it to get an idea of what's going on. However, its finding it hard to make money as advertisers are finding online is better for them so it probably won't survive.

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/who-says-millennials-dont-read-newspapers-editor-ted-young-on-the-rise-and-rise-of-metro/

    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11495
    Fretwired said:
    I'm talking about newspapers not the media in general. The fact is fewer and fewer people read them and those that do are older people who buy a paper out of habit and usually one that supports their viewpoint. Newspapers will be dead in the next 20 years. Some may survive online, but in the 24/7 age of news and busy lives people can't be arsed with them. They are becoming less relevant. Get on a busy commuter train - how many people are reading a newspaper? The Telegraph and Times subscriptions don't generate big revenues and if you hang on on the comment pages (subscribers only) the complaints about the lack of quality grow louder every week.

    And I have one real world example. I run a business networking group in a hotel - we started in the late 1990s and the hotel had a large supply of newspapers delivered everyday. Some for guests who'd asked for them and some to sell and some promos that publishers punted out. They stopped last year. The manager said nobody asked for them any more. The hotel is a newspaper free zone.

    The main reason papers are dying is people are no longer willing to pay for news .. evidence? The newspaper with the biggest UK circulation - Metro. It has a tiny staff, is free and it just aggregates the news from other sources. No opinion pieces. You can just scan it to get an idea of what's going on. However, its finding it hard to make money as advertisers are finding online is better for them so it probably won't survive.

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/who-says-millennials-dont-read-newspapers-editor-ted-young-on-the-rise-and-rise-of-metro/



    You're quite right on the bulks going down in hotels and other places. People are not paying for news on a daily basis as they once used to do. However they do pay for news in major situations. The Times experimented with reducing paywalled content after the EU referendum and subscription figures jumped markedly once the paywall came back a few days later. The same with true after the last General Election. So there is an argument that people will pay for good quality journalism. The Times is doing a lot better than the Telegraph, not surprising when you consider how lousy the leadership at the Telegraph has been over the last few years. Some magazines on the other hand are doing very well. Private Eye hit its highest circulation ever last year, the Economist and the Spectator are doing well as are other political and economic magazines so that tells you something about people looking for quality of content. 

    When newspapers die, one wonders how they will be replaced. Much has been said about bloggers and amateur investigative journalism but these will never have the power to break stories like the Panama Papers for instance. Perhaps the death of newsprint strengthens the need for a state broadcaster. 
    Clarity over quantity.  
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