Buying a used Mac Pro

joeyowen

So I know nothing about Macs, but this summer I'll be stepping into the dark side and getting a Mac Pro.

No part of me wants to pay 2.5k on a new model, so where is a good place to buy used?  It will be used for Pro Tools almost exclusively so it doesn't have to be a trash can model.  I want to keep my Monitor, so iMac is out of the question due to space.

Maybe Mac Mini if I can run Pro Tools 12.  I know shit all

ps, I'm keeping my rusty old PC if I can, if you catch my drift

joeyowen

I will add, if anyone has good experience using Pro Tools on a PC, I'd be keen to hear

Whitecat

Mac minis are great - find an old quad-core version - 2.6 or 2.7 was as fast as they got I think. Chuck 16gb of RAM in and it makes an excellent PT machine.

The old tower Mac Pros are getting on a bit now... I'd play wait-and-see for the next iteration if you really must go Mac Pro. Sounds like the trashcan is going to go in favour of a "modular" design.

Funkfingers

joeyowen said:

this summer, I'll be stepping into the dark side and getting a Mac Pro.

Shurely shome mishtake?

Microsoft is The Evil Empire. [FX: Riccchhhhht. Ph-tang!]

octatonic

The old Cheesgraters can be had for peanuts- get one of those.
If you don't need Thunderbolt then they are a bargain.
I still have one - a 2.8Ghz quad core with 16GB of RAM.
It runs Pro Tools fine and will take HDX cards or any PCIE audio card.

Personally I would avoid the trashcan Mac Pro.
Way too expensive for a computer from 2013 and the largest internal drive you can have is 1TB and that costs an absolute bomb.

There is a new Mac Pro coming this year (maybe) but we do't know much about it other than it will be modular.
it is likely to be very expensive.

I've been using Apple computers in the studio since the 90's.
I'd actually sick to death of Apple ignoring the pro market.
I'm speccing a high end HDX computer at the moment and it will be a PC.
I'll be keeping my current systems (iMac 5k, Cheesegrater and a 15" MBP) for writing machines but my main mixing rig will be PC.
I would never have thought I'd be saying this but Apple are on the verge of losing me entirely over this.

joeyowen

Cheers

Shall I just get a PC to run Logic then?  4 messages in after saying no debate aha

Whitecat

joeyowen said:

Cheers

Shall I just get a PC to run Logic then?  4 messages in after saying no debate aha

Logic only runs on OSX...

joeyowen

Whitecat said:

joeyowen said:

Cheers

Shall I just get a PC to run Logic then?  4 messages in after saying no debate aha

Logic only runs on OSX...

That's because I was supposed to say Pro Tools, and haven't had enough coffee today

monquixote

I'd probably buy a decent spec Mac Mini rather than a trashcan.

Macs do blow up and can be expensive to repair (I say this as head of engineering at a company that runs exclusively Macs) and the secondhand prices are a bit excessive so I'd be tempted to buy new with Apple Care if you can afford it.

joeyowen

monquixote said:

I'd probably buy a decent spec Mac Mini rather than a trashcan.

Macs do blow up and can be expensive to repair (I say this as head of engineering at a company that runs exclusively Macs) and the secondhand prices are a bit excessive so I'd be tempted to buy new with Apple Care if you can afford it.

Mac Mini new, i7, 16gb, 1tb fusion is  £1178 with education pricing

The same price PC will be a very good spec, with better graphics.  That is what is making deciding hard, and pushing me toward second hand market

monquixote

Only you can decide Mac or PC, but I think second hand Apple prices are usually daft.

To me a Mac is just a fancy Unix box so now they have the Linux subsystem I'd probably be happy with a Windows 10 machine, but our hands are tied as we need access to the iPhone toolchain. If I was buying a machine for music production I'd probably just buy a Windows box and use Reaper.

These days you don't really need a monster machine to do music production unless you are doing something very demanding.

octatonic

joeyowen said:

Cheers

Shall I just get a PC to run Logic then?  4 messages in after saying no debate aha

I wasn't saying you should- I presented the reality as it stands today.

You said you were mostly using Pro Tools.
I was trying to illustrate how frustrating it is to be a pro audio user under OSX in 2018.
It shouldn't be, but Apple don't make a machine that isn't an insane purchase at this point.
It is actually quite infuriating.

Mac Pro: Computer from 2013, cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis
iMac Pro: is £5k and cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis
iMac 27": cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis, fans spin up under loads and annoy
Mac mini: is way too slow and only dual core unless you buy one from 2014 and and cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis.
MBP: cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis, fans spin up under load.

All Apple need to do is make an updated version of the Cheesegrater with an i7 or i9, maybe an Xeon.
Give it TB3 and fast RAM and a 2TB internal drive, allow more drives to be installed in it and allow PCIE cards to be installed in it.

The PC version of Pro Tools is the same as the Mac as makes no difference.

If that doesn't work for you then a 2012 Cheesegrater is the way to go- you'll pay under a grand but there is no warranty and you will never get Thunderbolt.

FWIW I mostly write Logic, which I do under Mac OSX, but I mix in PT.

fandango

I would have suggested the official Apple Certified Refurbished site, but for the paucity of choice. You could also try an official Apple reseller to see if they have any used units.

Clarky

I still use an early 2008 8-core mac pro [32Gb RAM / 4x 1T internal HD <the main drive is 1T SSD> / PCIE card for additional firewire / USB and 4T external for Time Machine / backup files etc]
it's been awesome.. still going strong.. fast.. reliable
copes well with the horrific music crap I make it do..
LogicPro X with tons of additional orchestral / cinematic plug-ins..
projects with 100+ tracks for the orchestra / choir / percussion / synths / sound effects etc

OS wise it's on El Capitan, which is as high as it'll go..
so I imagine in a few years some stuff [which I most likely don't care about too much] will stop working
for me, the main thing beyond all else is that this machine is my studio

Clarky

octatonic said:

Mac Pro: Computer from 2013, cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis

All Apple need to do is make an updated version of the Cheesegrater with an i7 or i9, maybe an Xeon.
Give it TB3 and fast RAM and a 2TB internal drive, allow more drives to be installed in it and allow PCIE cards to be installed in it.

this is the reason I didn't update to the trashcan and still run the 2008 Mac Pro that I've had from new
to be honest.. my feeling has been.. certainly not broke.. certainly not fixing..

I will however be interested to see what the new modular Mac Pro looks like..
even then.. will I make the leap right away?? absolutely not.. still no need..
maybe in a few more years time though if my current machine starts to struggle
which so far it's not showing any signs of doing

octatonic

Clarky said:

octatonic said:

Mac Pro: Computer from 2013, cannot accept PCIE cards without expansion chassis

All Apple need to do is make an updated version of the Cheesegrater with an i7 or i9, maybe an Xeon.
Give it TB3 and fast RAM and a 2TB internal drive, allow more drives to be installed in it and allow PCIE cards to be installed in it.

this is the reason I didn't update to the trashcan and still run the 2008 Mac Pro that I've had from new
to be honest.. my feeling has been.. certainly not broke.. certainly not fixing..

I will however be interested to see what the new modular Mac Pro looks like..
even then.. will I make the leap right away?? absolutely not.. still no need..
maybe in a few more years time though if my current machine starts to struggle
which so far it's not showing any signs of doing

I had to jump to an iMac 27"- some of the mixing jobs I do are huge and my Mac Pro was struggling.
It cost me £3k and it is absolutely the wrong form factor for a studio computer.
I'm faced with the choice between waiting for a modular Mac Pro which may or may not have PCIE slots (probably not) or jumping ship to PC and having an easier life.

PC_Dave

joeyowen said:

monquixote said:

I'd probably buy a decent spec Mac Mini rather than a trashcan.

Macs do blow up and can be expensive to repair (I say this as head of engineering at a company that runs exclusively Macs) and the secondhand prices are a bit excessive so I'd be tempted to buy new with Apple Care if you can afford it.

Mac Mini new, i7, 16gb, 1tb fusion is  £1178 with education pricing

The same price PC will be a very good spec, with better graphics.  That is what is making deciding hard, and pushing me toward second hand market

Yeah, but think of the bragging rights telling EVERYONE you have a Mac all the time - they are priceless.

Plus you'll need to get a questionable nose piercing and/or a pork pie hat (Made from vegan friendly materials, of course.)

crunchman

monquixote said:

Only you can decide Mac or PC, but I think second hand Apple prices are usually daft.

To me a Mac is just a fancy Unix box so now they have the Linux subsystem I'd probably be happy with a Windows 10 machine, but our hands are tied as we need access to the iPhone toolchain. If I was buying a machine for music production I'd probably just buy a Windows box and use Reaper.

These days you don't really need a monster machine to do music production unless you are doing something very demanding.

I've never been a huge Mac fan, but I did buy a MacBook Pro around 2011 for using Logic.  I got rid of that a year and half ago and got a PC with Reaper.  I'm much happier with that, and I have a lot of leftover money as a result.

You are right about second hand Mac prices as well.  You will pay an awful lot for the spec of machine.

octatonic

Mac makes sense for those working professionally with the tools.
It isn't about power- it is about the ability to collaborate with others more easily.
They usually won't be buying it with their own money, or can cap-ex it if they are, and write it off over 5 years.
Also, compared to the price of other studio gear, such as monitoring chain or console, the cost of the computer is minimal.
Pro Tools HD costs £2000 for the software and each HDX card costs £2500, before you start adding converters.
It used to be that you couldn't get a HD rig for under £20k.
The computer itself is relatively cheap in comparison.

Until quite recently it was quite rare for a pro to be using a PC to do audio, expect in the mastering or game audio worlds.

It is starting to change though- mostly because of Apple ignoring the pro audio market coupled with Windows 10 being a massive step up in terms of of how it works with a minimum of intervention from the user.
It isn't flawless but neither is OS X.

fandango

PC_Dave said:

joeyowen said:

monquixote said:

I'd probably buy a decent spec Mac Mini rather than a trashcan.

Macs do blow up and can be expensive to repair (I say this as head of engineering at a company that runs exclusively Macs) and the secondhand prices are a bit excessive so I'd be tempted to buy new with Apple Care if you can afford it.

Mac Mini new, i7, 16gb, 1tb fusion is  £1178 with education pricing

The same price PC will be a very good spec, with better graphics.  That is what is making deciding hard, and pushing me toward second hand market

Yeah, but think of the bragging rights telling EVERYONE you have a Mac all the time - they are priceless.

Plus you'll need to get a questionable nose piercing and/or a pork pie hat (Made from vegan friendly materials, of course.)

... and be a fan of the (so-called "mighty") Totteringham Hotspuds.

Foster

I'd look into a cheesegrater mac too, Pro Tools can be a bit of a bitch on either system but from personal experience (and knowing people who have similar experience) OSX is more stable and less interfering for pro audio stuff than Windows.

When I was with my ex her sister's partner scoffed at me for buying a macbook pro to run pro tools/ableton/logic/max msp/photo editing stuff claiming "you'll have no end of problems". When her dad wanted a new computer to run pro tools he was advised by same guy to spend £2k on a brand new PC running Vista...

I think they spent most nights trying to get pro tools to work on that PC. I didn't have any issues and could happily plug in an Mbox/002/003 without the mac throwing a hissy fit.