Blackstar HT20 or 40?

Liamgilmour928

I've looking at buying a Blackstar HT amp but I'm not sure whether to go for the 20 watt or 40 watt version. I'm mostly a bed room guitarist, but do play in the studio a bit and occasionally play live. I'm worried the 40 watt will be too loud in my room, even in the 4 Watt mode, but then the 20 watt not loud enough when playing live. 

Any tips?

ftumch

Make of this what you will, i bought the ht20 when they were first released for live and found that i couldnt really hear myself, it seemed pretty loud but i wasnt cutting through. We do play loud rock though. I swapped it for the 40 which was better but i didnt keep it for other reasons. Ive heard that they really benefit from a speaker change so you may find that a ht20 with a different speaker would be plenty.

ecc83

Your instinct is bang on, the HT-20 would be a a bit challenged in a decent sized pub if you wanted a clean sound against a loud drummer. The 20 combo also has a pretty awful speaker in it!

I understand that HT-40* is B's best selling  'big' amplifier? I don't know the price difference but if you have the chance to try one I would have a do with the new Artist 30.

*Can't recall testing one but the HT range all seemed to kick out much more than the 'logo' suggests? E.g. I never checked a 60 that did not easily push 80W and I would bet the 40 is closer to a 50, even 60W amp if given the beans? The HT-20 DOES however limit at just about 20W because it is part cathode biased.

Oh! And as ICBM is ALWAYS telling us! "big" amps can always be used at home.

Dave.

Liamgilmour928

What does it mean if the HT20 is part cathode biased? Cheers.

DartmoorHedgehog

I used to use an HT-20 head into a pair of V30s, with a 5-piece rock/punk band. It was loud enough, but wouldn't have been if I'd needed really clean cleans.  If you need proper clean you'd be struggling with the 20 (although I used to like the sound of the clean channel run loud and breaking up).

ICBM

If you can afford and lift the HT40 I would always go with the bigger amp, given the choice - especially if you play clean.

I don't think you would have a problem with the 40 at home, the volume controls work well on them. Both of them benefit from a speaker upgrade, but on the 20 it's essential - it can also very substantially increase the volume, since the stock 'Rocket 50' is only about 95dB, so if you fit a 100dB speaker like a V30 it will be equivalent to tripling the power of the amp. The same applies to the 40, but less so - the stock speaker is 98dB so you'll only gain a little bit, I would do it more for tone reasons.

ecc83

Liamgilmour928 said:

What does it mean if the HT20 is part cathode biased? Cheers.

If you mean from the power output point of view, Cathode Biasing inherently limits the current and hence power output of a valve.

 If you mean "what is PART cathode biasing"? On the tin! There are cathode resistors but also some -ve volts to trim the anode currents. This actually means that you can stuff pretty much any gash EL34s in a 20 and they will be pretty much 'on song'. At least close enough to get you through the gig.  (you could probably slap in a couple of 6L6s? Even 6V6 and get you going though you might bugger the wee'uns!)

Dave.

Danny1969

I had an HT40 in for repair a little while ago and there's no problem getting decent sounds at low volume with one

@ecc83 .... why is the clean volume pot dual gang and why is the PCB marked and drill for dual gang pots on the rest ?

jpfamps

ecc83 said:

Your instinct is bang on, the HT-20 would be a a bit challenged in a decent sized pub if you wanted a clean sound against a loud drummer. The 20 combo also has a pretty awful speaker in it!

I understand that HT-40* is B's best selling  'big' amplifier? I don't know the price difference but if you have the chance to try one I would have a do with the new Artist 30.

*Can't recall testing one but the HT range all seemed to kick out much more than the 'logo' suggests? E.g. I never checked a 60 that did not easily push 80W and I would bet the 40 is closer to a 50, even 60W amp if given the beans? The HT-20 DOES however limit at just about 20W because it is part cathode biased.

Oh! And as ICBM is ALWAYS telling us! "big" amps can always be used at home.

Dave.

How did Blackstar measure power? At the point of clipping.

I've rarely found a Blackstar amp that makes the rated power at clipping (and colleagues of mine have had the same results in this regard, so this is unlikely to be "user error").

eg I've measured a few HT40s and never got more than 36W at clipping (incidentally the HT40 won't pass a 100 Hz sine wave with evididence of transformer saturation; not surprising that it has an OT that would be considered small in a 15W amp).

Liamgilmour928

ICBM said:

If you can afford and lift the HT40 I would always go with the bigger amp, given the choice - especially if you play clean.

I don't think you would have a problem with the 40 at home, the volume controls work well on them. Both of them benefit from a speaker upgrade, but on the 20 it's essential - it can also very substantially increase the volume, since the stock 'Rocket 50' is only about 95dB, so if you fit a 100dB speaker like a V30 it will be equivalent to tripling the power of the amp. The same applies to the 40, but less so - the stock speaker is 98dB so you'll only gain a little bit, I would do it more for tone reasons.

I've got four Celestion G12-80's sitting around at home. Would these do the trick?

ICBM

Liamgilmour928 said:

I've got four Celestion G12-80's sitting around at home. Would these do the trick?

Yes - great speaker, very big and chunky-sounding and should be 99 or 100dB.

ecc83

jpfamps said:

ecc83 said:

Your instinct is bang on, the HT-20 would be a a bit challenged in a decent sized pub if you wanted a clean sound against a loud drummer. The 20 combo also has a pretty awful speaker in it!

I understand that HT-40* is B's best selling  'big' amplifier? I don't know the price difference but if you have the chance to try one I would have a do with the new Artist 30.

*Can't recall testing one but the HT range all seemed to kick out much more than the 'logo' suggests? E.g. I never checked a 60 that did not easily push 80W and I would bet the 40 is closer to a 50, even 60W amp if given the beans? The HT-20 DOES however limit at just about 20W because it is part cathode biased.

Oh! And as ICBM is ALWAYS telling us! "big" amps can always be used at home.

Dave.

How did Blackstar measure power? At the point of clipping.

I've rarely found a Blackstar amp that makes the rated power at clipping (and colleagues of mine have had the same results in this regard, so this is unlikely to be "user error").

eg I've measured a few HT40s and never got more than 36W at clipping (incidentally the HT40 won't pass a 100 Hz sine wave with evididence of transformer saturation; not surprising that it has an OT that would be considered small in a 15W amp).

I measured at 'obvious' clipping, a definite flat spot top and bottom of the waveform, 1kHz into the FX return jack and a (0.5kW) 8 Ohm resistive load and mains in was set by a Variac to 230V rms  and the output voltage read with a true rms meter (Levell mV meter).

In some later tests I was asked to check an HT-100 for power delivery at 10% THD* and found it easily surpassed 100W (I suspect they might have been thinking of marketing a "120" variant?)

I agree the 40 traff IS wee but as I said above, one of their best sellers and I never had a traff fail !

*Only way to specify power output IMHO? It is a 'judgement call' to specc power 'at clipping' . The hi fi boys  only take "X watts (derived of course as a voltage across a WELL specified load) at "Y" % THD as a valid way to rate an amplifier and mains power must be either stabilized or quoted at the full power point.

Dave.

ecc83

Can I point out that 36W is less than 0.5dB below 40 watts?

Dave.

jpfamps

ecc83 said:

Can I point out that 36W is less than 0.5dB below 40 watts?

Dave.

Well you just have!

I was aware of that........

ecc83

jpfamps said:

ecc83 said:

Can I point out that 36W is less than 0.5dB below 40 watts?

Dave.

Well you just have!

I was aware of that........

But other may not be.

Dave.