Do lyrics enhance music?

Freebird

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Freebird

I can bang out chord progressions and melodies in a matter of minutes, but I'm slowly coming around to the idea that it's the lyrics that make or break a great tune.

So is the power of music to found in the written word, or amongst the keys and the scales?

flying_pie

The right melody and  average lyrics can still work. Excellent lyrics and awful melody can work. But neither of those is as effective as a great melody, excellent lyrics and the delivery of the lyrics 

Legionreturns

I'd say vocals, rather than lyrics, are vital to making a good song. By which I mean a combination of the actual lyrics and the vocal delivery. 

Think of Black by Pearl Jam, and you can feel what Eddie means when he sings and it's powerful. Imagine the same song droned out by any of today's current crop of blank karaoke singers and it would be drivel. 

Freebird

I am already assuming that the vocalist would be top notch, and I'm still swaying towards the idea of the lyrics carrying more weight. Maybe it's because I'm rubbish at writing words, while chord progressions and melodies come easy?

Legionreturns

I'm the opposite. My technical knowledge of music is pretty poor but I've been writing since I was in my teens and have been published a few times. My issue is thinning down my written word to make it song worthy, as there's not really enough room in a song to say what you can say in a poem or short story. 

Funkfingers

Legionreturns said:

My issue is thinning down my written word to make it song worthy

Geddy Lee made similar comments about the reams of paper that he would be handed by Neil Peart. Clever words, right enough, but too many syllables to be singable without sounding - excuse the pun - rushed.

Freebird

Funkfingers said:

Legionreturns said:

My issue is thinning down my written word to make it song worthy

Geddy Lee made similar comments about the reams of paper that he would be handed by Neil Peart. Clever words, right enough, but too many syllables to be singable without sounding - excuse the pun - rushed.

There is definitly an art to lyric writing, it's not as simple as it looks 

JAYJO

Laurie Andersons Oh Superman is a strange one and a massive hit. 

Rocker

Vocals. But the song must tell a story or say something! If you think about it, you will realise that almost all of the good songs do.

Melody and rhythm come second IMHO.  Get all right and you are onto a winner...

maltingsaudio

Legionreturns said:

I'd say vocals, rather than lyrics, are vital to making a good song. By which I mean a combination of the actual lyrics and the vocal delivery. 

Agreed and to illustrate https://youtu.be/_1jL8A20H_k

Freebird

Rocker said:

Vocals. But the song must tell a story or say something! If you think about it, you will realise that almost all of the good songs do.

Melody and rhythm come second IMHO.  Get all right and you are onto a winner...

I remember a country singer giving some songwriting tips, his top one was to write about what you know.

prowla

Funkfingers said:

Legionreturns said:

My issue is thinning down my written word to make it song worthy

Geddy Lee made similar comments about the reams of paper that he would be handed by Neil Peart. Clever words, right enough, but too many syllables to be singable without sounding - excuse the pun - rushed.

He also said he has to believe the lyrics (hence why he doesn't like Tai Shan).

JezWynd

Sometimes they are the music. Blood on the Tracks springs immediately to mind but there's lots of others.

prowla

The lyrics have to help paint a picture and sometimes the lyrics are profound whilst others they are just soundbytes.

Examples for the soundbytes/picture approach are Yes and Dio, where a few simple words take you to a place.

In contrast, the likes of Billy Squier and Rush have deep and meaningful lyrics, which make you think about things.

joetele

Depends entirely on the type of music doesn't it? In recent years I've gone off a lot of music with lyrics/vocals in - quite often the lyrics can add a sense of contrivance to otherwise great music, or date it, or skew it. 

I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental music these days - and it's all I play in my band. It can free up what we play, too - resisting the verse/chorus/verse structure, we can play songs as long as we need to, in whatever way - and most of them are fairly long, building songs with occasional changes to the dynamics or music. 

So yeah, if you like your stuff conventional - lyrics work better, and if they're good lyrics, they lift the song and everything works on a par with each other. 

If not, I guess it's a moot point. 

TheBigDipper

Great lyrics and an interesting top melody line can enhance even the dreariest chord progression. Although not all music is in song format. 

@Freebird if you're coming up with really good top melody lines and a decent chord sequence underneath, then maybe you should just focus on instrumentals and work to your strengths. If the melody is worthy, it will stand as a piece of music and not need a lyric. Most lyric melody lines seem to follow the chord changes (because the chord changes often come first for many of us) and are quite dull and restricted to an octave or less. If you don't need someone to sing the melody then you've got much more scope as a composer. 

I agree with a previous comment. Yes lyrics (Siberian Khatru, The Revealing Science of God) are often meaningless but are words that sound good when they're sung using the powerful melody. The musical effect is great and the voice is just another instrument in the band. Richard Thompson lyrics can be very meaningful (Beeswing, Al Bowly's In Heaven) and tell a moving story - just him and an acoustic. Often heartbreaking. 

Isn't music great! 

Phil_aka_Pip

vocals = wasted space between the guitar solos

Freebird

OK, I've signed up for the free version of this course starting 30 April 

https://www.coursera.org/learn/songwriting-lyrics

If he taught John Mayer, then he can't fail to help me! 

TheBigDipper

Freebird said:

OK, I've signed up for the free version of this course starting 30 April 

https://www.coursera.org/learn/songwriting-lyrics

If he taught John Mayer, then he can't fail to help me! 

Please let us know how it goes. 

FWIW, I can only write lyrics when I've tried to arrange my thoughts and decided what it is I want to say. Then, I try and find a way of saying it in a lyrical way. I uually fail.

To give one of my favourite Elvis Costello lines as an example...

(I'm guessing that) he wanted to make a comment about how we spend our lives scrabbling to make a living when we should be using our lives to enrich ourselves and others...

(he wrote) 
Diving for dear life
When we could be diving for pearls

Which says it so well it usually makes me want to cry when I hear him or Robert Wyatt singing it. With the Falkands background to the song there's also the imagery of "diving" when so many people drowned 

So, I'm happy to accept that you need a good idea for a song, but turning the good idea into a good lyric is a skilled craft. 

Freebird

TheBigDipper said:

Please let us know how it goes. 

FWIW, I can only write lyrics when I've tried to arrange my thoughts and decided what it is I want to say. Then, I try and find a way of saying it in a lyrical way. I uually fail.

To give one of my favourite Elvis Costello lines as an example...

(I'm guessing that) he wanted to make a comment about how we spend our lives scrabbling to make a living when we should be using our lives to enrich ourselves and others...

(he wrote) 
Diving for dear life
When we could be diving for pearls

Which says it so well it usually makes me want to cry when I hear him or Robert Wyatt singing it. With the Falkands background to the song there's also the imagery of "diving" when so many people drowned 

So, I'm happy to accept that you need a good idea for a song, but turning the good idea into a good lyric is a skilled craft. 

Why don't you sign up? There's nothing to lose, you can follow the course material without any academic obligation by just watching the videos passively, or you can complete the coursework without certification which is the free option