Rosewood fretboard care - thoughts?

robgilmo

Conditioning wood? All any oil will do is sit ontop of Rosewood, on the surface, feeding, conditioning ,its all sales talk. I restore antique furniture in my spare time and finishing / refinishing is a large part of that and I can tell you oiling rosewood only makes it look darker, nothing more, it doesnt condition it (what ever that means) or feed it , it just makes it darker and slippery.

octatonic

WezV said:

Not all rosewood is equal in colour or natural oil content.  

This.

And I am actually in Arizona at the moment.
It is dry as fuck.

If I had guitars here then I’d be oiling them weekly.
In the UK, basically once a season at most.

Chalky

robgilmo said:

Conditioning wood? All any oil will do is sit ontop of Rosewood, on the surface, feeding, conditioning ,its all sales talk. I restore antique furniture in my spare time and finishing / refinishing is a large part of that and I can tell you oiling rosewood only makes it look darker, nothing more, it doesnt condition it (what ever that means) or feed it , it just makes it darker and slippery.

This. Using something to darken the rosewood is fine if that is what you want to achieve. But saying the rosewood NEEDS something on it is simply sales nonsense.  What does rosewood do if you don't put fretboard oil or conditioner on it? Nothing. I have a few guitars owned from new that have never had any fretboard oil on their rosewood, and some of the cheap ones  lived in the loft for years too.

But hey that is just empirical evidence.  Which, as we know, is nothing compared to internet wisdom from folks who regurgitate what other folks have told them.

amarok1971

robgilmo said:

Conditioning wood? All any oil will do is sit ontop of Rosewood, on the surface, feeding, conditioning ,its all sales talk. I restore antique furniture in my spare time and finishing / refinishing is a large part of that and I can tell you oiling rosewood only makes it look darker, nothing more, it doesnt condition it (what ever that means) or feed it , it just makes it darker and slippery.

So why does guitar honey soak in then?

Handsome_Chris

I'm with @amarok1971 on this one: I've seen a neglected fretboard swallow F-One Oil and come back for more.  Conversely, I did a fretboard for a second time in two months and some of the stuff stayed on top, so I guess that in the first case it did not evaporate.

Edit: It was three month, not two.

WezV

Chalky said:

robgilmo said:

Conditioning wood? All any oil will do is sit ontop of Rosewood, on the surface, feeding, conditioning ,its all sales talk. I restore antique furniture in my spare time and finishing / refinishing is a large part of that and I can tell you oiling rosewood only makes it look darker, nothing more, it doesnt condition it (what ever that means) or feed it , it just makes it darker and slippery.

This. Using something to darken the rosewood is fine if that is what you want to achieve. But saying the rosewood NEEDS something on it is simply sales nonsense.  What does rosewood do if you don't put fretboard oil or conditioner on it? Nothing. I have a few guitars owned from new that have never had any fretboard oil on their rosewood, and some of the cheap ones  lived in the loft for years too.

But hey that is just empirical evidence.  Which, as we know, is nothing compared to internet wisdom from folks who regurgitate what other folks have told them.

Your empirical evidence seems seems to be that you have never had an issue with a dry board?  

most half decent rosewood has a lot of natural oils in it.  Wipe it down with thinners and you will get a rich purpley brown stain on the cloth and a dry board.  On some rosewoods you have to do this before gluing or the oil content will stop it sticking.  It doesn’t stay dry though, it’s natural oiliness will reappear in a few days/weeks.  It doesn’t need much care through normal use.

Some lacks the high oil content, and that’s the stuff we perceive as dry.  It’s not always the cheap ones though... Gibson had a few years of really dry boards and I have seen a few PRS necks that were quite dry.  

some are played by people with corrosive sweat.  That will also dry out some boards.  

Sometimes the board just feels dry because it’s gunked up.  If lemon oil solves it, that was likely the issue

robgilmo

WezV said:

Chalky said:

robgilmo said:

Conditioning wood? All any oil will do is sit ontop of Rosewood, on the surface, feeding, conditioning ,its all sales talk. I restore antique furniture in my spare time and finishing / refinishing is a large part of that and I can tell you oiling rosewood only makes it look darker, nothing more, it doesnt condition it (what ever that means) or feed it , it just makes it darker and slippery.

This. Using something to darken the rosewood is fine if that is what you want to achieve. But saying the rosewood NEEDS something on it is simply sales nonsense.  What does rosewood do if you don't put fretboard oil or conditioner on it? Nothing. I have a few guitars owned from new that have never had any fretboard oil on their rosewood, and some of the cheap ones  lived in the loft for years too.

But hey that is just empirical evidence.  Which, as we know, is nothing compared to internet wisdom from folks who regurgitate what other folks have told them.

Your empirical evidence seems seems to be that you have never had an issue with a dry board?  

most half decent rosewood has a lot of natural oils in it.  Wipe it down with thinners and you will get a rich purpley brown stain on the cloth and a dry board.  On some rosewoods you have to do this before gluing or the oil content will stop it sticking.  It doesn’t stay dry though, it’s natural oiliness will reappear in a few days/weeks.  It doesn’t need much care through normal use.

Some lacks the high oil content, and that’s the stuff we perceive as dry.  It’s not always the cheap ones though... Gibson had a few years of really dry boards and I have seen a few PRS necks that were quite dry.  

some are played by people with corrosive sweat.  That will also dry out some boards.  

Sometimes the board just feels dry because it’s gunked up.  If lemon oil solves it, that was likely the issue

Lemon oil, or petrol as some have described it will leech out the woods natural oils, so what you are doing is basically causing the conditions that you are trying to prevent. A catch 22, this is why you shouldne use these products. Some one asked why a certian product " soaked in", it probably didnt, a solvent might, but by a miniscule amount, miniscule being teeny tiny, if it soaked in by any substantial amount the pours would swell, you dont want that, nor do you want a solvent anywhere near a bare wood with a high natural oil content.

robgilmo

Also, whiping down with thinners and seeing a purple residue, this can also be stain, Squier guitars for instance have stained fretboards and I am pretty sure fenders do too.

hassleham

I’ve always put lemon oil on ebony and rosewood fretboards.. always feels nicer afterwards as long as the correct amount is used.

WezV

robgilmo said:

Also, whiping down with thinners and seeing a purple residue, this can also be stain, Squier guitars for instance have stained fretboards and I am pretty sure fenders do too.

I do it with raw rosewood planks as a regular occurrence.    see my previous comments on gluing oily wood.  I am not talking about stain.

robgilmo said:

WezV said:

Sometimes the board just feels dry because it’s gunked up.  If lemon oil solves it, that was likely the issue

Lemon oil, or petrol as some have described it will leech out the woods natural oils, so what you are doing is basically causing the conditions that you are trying to prevent. A catch 22, this is why you shouldne use these products. 

I agree, but as other have said, "lemon oil" is a cleaning product.  It cuts through the human gunk quite nicely. 

 I don't recommend it for  "oiling" a board

WezV

robgilmo said:

Conditioning wood? All any oil will do is sit ontop of Rosewood, on the surface, feeding, conditioning ,its all sales talk. I restore antique furniture in my spare time and finishing / refinishing is a large part of that and I can tell you oiling rosewood only makes it look darker, nothing more, it doesnt condition it (what ever that means) or feed it , it just makes it darker and slippery.

genuinely interested - how much of the antique rosewood furniture you deal with is left natural, like a guitar fretboard?

Last bit i saw was on a walking stick handle, a beautifully turned bit of braz.   that was heavily used and worn through, but still had an obvious finish on it.

also, if you come across any pieces of ugly old brown furniture that can provide a few fretboard blanks, let me know

robgilmo

WezV said:

robgilmo said:

Also, whiping down with thinners and seeing a purple residue, this can also be stain, Squier guitars for instance have stained fretboards and I am pretty sure fenders do too.

I do it with raw rosewood planks as a regular occurrence.    see my previous comments on gluing oily wood.  I am not talking about stain.

robgilmo said:

WezV said:

Sometimes the board just feels dry because it’s gunked up.  If lemon oil solves it, that was likely the issue

Lemon oil, or petrol as some have described it will leech out the woods natural oils, so what you are doing is basically causing the conditions that you are trying to prevent. A catch 22, this is why you shouldne use these products. 

I agree, but as other have said, "lemon oil" is a cleaning product.  It cuts through the human gunk quite nicely. 

 I don't recommend it for  "oiling" a board

I always was sus about Lemon oil when I first heard of it, lemon has been used as a cleaning agent for hundreds of years. It was used for most things from polishing brass to cleaning furniture, Boiled Linseed oil is probably a better product if you want to change the appearance of a rosewood board, or MrSheen. A light mineral oil may work but you really want a drying oil, which again may contain solvents, another catch 22, I would go with Linseed myself, it dries, darkens, protects, mix a small amount with lemon juice (victorian furniture cleaner) and use this to clean the board, whipe off, then just use boiled linseed, whipe off. Or dont over think it, clean with a damp cloth and leave it alone.

WezV

robgilmo said:

WezV said:

robgilmo said:

Also, whiping down with thinners and seeing a purple residue, this can also be stain, Squier guitars for instance have stained fretboards and I am pretty sure fenders do too.

I do it with raw rosewood planks as a regular occurrence.    see my previous comments on gluing oily wood.  I am not talking about stain.

robgilmo said:

WezV said:

Sometimes the board just feels dry because it’s gunked up.  If lemon oil solves it, that was likely the issue

Lemon oil, or petrol as some have described it will leech out the woods natural oils, so what you are doing is basically causing the conditions that you are trying to prevent. A catch 22, this is why you shouldne use these products. 

I agree, but as other have said, "lemon oil" is a cleaning product.  It cuts through the human gunk quite nicely. 

 I don't recommend it for  "oiling" a board

I always was sus about Lemon oil when I first heard of it, lemon has been used as a cleaning agent for hundreds of years. It was used for most things from polishing brass to cleaning furniture, Boiled Linseed oil is probably a better product if you want to change the appearance of a rosewood board, or MrSheen. A light mineral oil may work but you really want a drying oil, which again may contain solvents, another catch 22, I would go with Linseed myself, it dries, darkens, protects, mix a small amount with lemon juice (victorian furniture cleaner) and use this to clean the board, whipe off, then just use boiled linseed, whipe off. Or dont over think it, clean with a damp cloth and leave it alone.

You may have missed that most “lemon oil” is just lemon scented mineral oil

WezV

My personal recommendation for a dry board is Danish oil, rubbed in and buffed straight off.. which matches your suggestion for boiled linseed oil in theory , but I am more interested in the feel than the appearance 

Roland

robgilmo said:

A light mineral oil may work ..

In India I was advised to use 3in1 oil to protect rosewood. 

amarok1971

But the gerlitz honey is an oil... with nothing in it to evaporate... so how did it soak in then? 

robgilmo

Yeah mineral oil will change Rosewoods appearance, if it actually fully dries without adding solvents is anyones guess, the addition of solvents is probably why they made it lemon scented, much nicer than solvent scented. And the solvent will leech it into the woods surface.

robgilmo

You could test this with some oil, I have some very light machine mineral oil here, I will put a drop on a plate and see if it dries overnight, might be interesting to see by how much if any.

WezV

robgilmo said:

You could test this with some oil, I have some very light machine mineral oil here, I will put a drop on a plate and see if it dries overnight, might be interesting to see by how much if any.

Doesn’t tell us much about the natural oil content of rosewood, or how it varies, what can leach it out or what can restore it?

it will tell us some oils dry hard and some don’t,  but we know that already.

amarok1971

When I get a new (to me) guitar, the first thing I do is clean the fretboard and put guitar honey on it, this almost always soaks in within 10 mins. The next application straight afterwards doesn't get absorbed at all. If there were any solvents whatsoever then surely the second coat would evaporate (or soak in) even a tiny bit.... wouldn't It?