Patrick eggle Berlin pro tremolo advice help needed

Jimax

I have a Patrick eggle Berlin pro 24 fret which I would dearly like to pass on to my nephew. The problem is I have lost the tiny grub screws that hold the Wilkinson vs100 convertible tremolo arm in place and this means the guitar is unusable.  Can any tech heads out there help with recommending what tremolo system would be a straight swap for replacing the whole tremolo. I have tried contacting Patrick eggle at fret king.com but one of their techs said they no longer deal with Patrick eggle guitars, I have also purchased a Wilkinson arm retainer bolt from Axesrus Ltd but the grub screw that was sent by them does not screw all the way in so does not help. I really would love to pass on this guitar so if anyone could help with advice on who I could use fix this or fit an entire new tremolo system I would be very grateful for the help. I am not very good with fixing things so I am looking for someone I could pay to get it back into working order.

blobb

@RevMatt

try here if Matt doesn't come along anytime soon. http://patrickeggleguitars.org/smf/

Jimax

I forgot to mention I believe there is a locking bolt which you can replace the locking tremolo arm with which turns the guitar into a hard tail but I am at a loss as to where I could source one if anyone knows where I could buy one of if you have a spare one you could sell it would be appreciated.

RevMatt

Hi Jimax

There are a few answers to different aspects of your query.

Firstly, regarding direct replacement units, you could try the Wilkinson VS100 which is essentially the same as the current unit but without the 'convertible' feature of the original VS100c. Alternatively, I believe the VS50 may also be a direct swap but am not 100% sure without looking it up. Basically, a Wilkinson VS model that has a 2 screw (rather than 6) should be straight forward.

Just checked JHS and this looks like a direct swap: https://www.jhs.co.uk/brands/wilkinson/wilkinson-bridges/wilkinson-knife-edge-vibrato-chrome ;

However, I would encourage you to find a solution to reinstating the original trem. Without pictures, I'm not sure which grub screw you're missing - it's a complicated arm with numerous components. Can you add a picture?

The issues with replacement grubs screws is that the originals were imperial so finding replacements is not easy. I had an issue with one of these arms once where a grubscrew was seized in place. I took it to a local engineer who drilled out the original and rebored it for a metric grubscrew - job done and all for £10!

Regarding the nut that locates on the back of the guitar, Trev Wilkinson used to be able to supply these for £5, although I'm not sure if he still stocks them. Try getting hold of him through JHS.

Come back to me if I can help further.

RevMatt

Oooh, I've just remembered something... in my parts box, I have a small stumpy version of the trem arm (like the trem arm without the arm) which you can fit instead of the trem arm to simply lock the bridge - this may have the bits you require. I was hanging onto it just in case, but may considering selling it.

maltingsaudio

If you hunt down an old speakon nl4 connector, you will find the grub screws inside them used to clamp the cables are the same as the ones your missing. As to a replacement a Wilkinson /Gotoh VS100 should drop straight in.https://www.thomann.de/gb/wilkinsongotoh_vs100n_ch_tremolo.htm?glp=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgLPBga7L2gIVEGYbCh2k3AS2EAQYBSABEgIQlvD_BwE

The locking bolt was fixed to the plate which covered the tremolo springs not that this helps but never seen a replacement

Jimax

wow  I am so grateful for your responses, really guys that's amazing thank you so much.
Revmatt that sounds like just the thing I'm looking for that turns it into a hard tail, how much would you like to sell it? I was going to add some picture of the tremolo arm but I'm unsure how to do that.

Jimax

just to clarify I have the locking bolt which fixes onto the back plate that covers the springs, it's the three small grub screws on the tremolo arm itself that is missing. Sorry for no pictures but I'm a noob on this discussion page and I'm not how to add pictures into the chat.

RevMatt

Hi
Pictures have to be hosted on a 3rd party site and then linked to on here, so rather than me going through that rigmarole I'll message you and then I can email you pictures of the little gadget I have. You could either use it as it is (instead of the trem arm as just a locking device) or use it for parts. However, I'd still suggest taking the arm itself to a small engineering workshop as well as they could easily get it up and running again for you.

Jimax

Thank you Revmatt that sounds great, I can't even describe how grateful I am for your help and advice,top bloke.

Funkfingers

Jimax said:

Wilkinson vs100 convertible

To clarify for younger readers, the VS100 Convertible vibrato used an unnecessarily complex mechanism on the arm and cavity cover plate to temporarily lock the bridge off into hardtail mode. 

Jimax said:

it's the three small grub screws on the tremolo arm itself that is missing.

Do you refer to the ones that secure the wedge-shaped sections in position?

https://i.imgur.com/90kFG1G.jpg?1

Or the one at the bottom end of the arm, where it engages with the cavity cover plate?

https://i.imgur.com/iwhiSIr.jpg?2

ICBM

Don’t try to refit the ‘Convertible’ locking mechanism - it never worked properly and is a nightmare to adjust even enough to sort-of work.

Your best bet is just to replace the bridge with a modern VS100 if you can’t find parts that fit.

For what it’s worth a Fender USA Standard bridge is also a perfect fit on the posts. (The Wilkinson was designed to be, the other way round!)

RevMatt

There will always be those (like me) who think this is a brilliant design, and although admittedly a little fiddly at first, they are not difficult to set up and they perform brilliantly when set up well.

Jimax

Just to say I'm really taken aback by just how quickly and how much help and advice I've received, absolutely gob sacked, thank you one and all. I've now got a replacement part from Revmatt, advice on how to go about fixing the original (thanks again revmatt) and advice on replacements. I'm getting the guitar ready to pass on to my nephew and you've all contributed to making this happen, thank you all, really good people.

Jimax

Thank you for taking the time to post those picture's funkfingers yes it is those as shown that are missing.   I always enjoyed using the tremolo although as a novice it was a bit fiddly to set up, but once it was done was always a pleasure to use.

Funkfingers

Jimax said:

I'm really taken aback by just how quickly and how much help and advice I've received

I am equally surprised. You have had the good fortune to receive nothing but replies from forumites who have actually used (or had to set-up and/or repair) the Wilkinson VS100 Convertible vibrato.

All to often, a thread will attract unhelpful interjections along the lines of, "it needs a Bigsby" or "only a German-made Floyd Rose is good enough". 

RevMatt said:

I have a small stumpy version of the trem arm (like the trem arm without the arm) which you can fit instead of the trem arm to simply lock the bridge - this may have the bits you require. I was hanging onto it just in case, but may considering selling it.

Is that still available or have you just agreed to sell it to the OP?

I have a feeling that the stump may even have been included in the original VS100 Convertible kit. 

RevMatt

Funkfingers said:

RevMatt said:

I have a small stumpy version of the trem arm (like the trem arm without the arm) which you can fit instead of the trem arm to simply lock the bridge - this may have the bits you require. I was hanging onto it just in case, but may considering selling it.

Is that still available or have you just agreed to sell it to the OP?

I have a feeling that the stump may even have been included in the original VS100 Convertible kit. 

No, sorry it's going to Jimax to help him get his trem / bridge reinstated. In over 15 years of buying and selling Eggles, I've only every come across a handful of these so don't think they were supplied as standard. I don't think I've ever seen any kind of marketing or publications that refer to them...

Funkfingers

It must have been on the installation instructions. Parts drawer rummage time, methinks.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

I have a feeling that the stump may even have been included in the original VS100 Convertible kit. 

Not with the one I had - which I did buy as a kit, not on a guitar.

The mechanism is a brilliant idea in theory, but I found it just did not work in practice - if you can make it, you must be either far more determined than me, or more tolerant of its problems in use!

Firstly the 'eccentric' socket in the backplate was a complete pig to get into the right place - it wasn't possible to tighten it enough so it wouldn't slip, and it was even difficult to tighten it at all without it sliding out of position in the process - I eventually superglued it into place, which did fix this problem but obviously meant it then wouldn't have been possible to adjust it again if necessary. (Luckily it shouldn't be, since there is only one correct position for any given guitar.)

Secondly it wasn't possible to adjust the arm so it would both engage firmly enough to lock the bridge tightly without rattling when playing chords, and at the same time go smoothly into the hole. And if it didn't go into the hole when the tip of the arm hit the socket, the result was that it pushed the bridge sharply up, instantly rendering the tuning badly out - unusable in a live situation.

Thirdly, even when by some miracle it was eventually adjusted absolutely perfectly and the arm would engage smoothly and tightly, which I think I did manage a couple of times, it would never stay like that for more than about a day - *everything* constantly worked loose and needed fiddling with.

On top of all that, it somehow killed the natural tone and resonance of the guitar, which was extremely obvious when I finally got fed up with it and replaced it with a standard bridge. I later did the same to a friend's one with the same result...

So I would have to say it's one of my least favourite pieces of guitar hardware ever, sadly .

drwiddly

I'm with @ICBM on this. I have several Patrick Eggles with the convertible trem system and I too found it really fiddly to set up and when I eventually got it right, I didn't like the feel and found the rest position of the arm awkward.

My solution was to remove the arm and, using a nylon washer to reduce the size of the hole, fit a Floyd Rose replacement arm and have the bridge floating. This works perfectly for me as I can position the arm where I want it. Granted, the bridges don't lock but they stay in tune very well and are no more compromised than a Strat or PRS trem.

maltingsaudio

I was one of the original Eggle dealers and have never seen the bit your on about