Amber Rudd

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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    ICBM said:
    Sajid Javid to replace Rudd.

    He's leave isnt he
    No, remain. More importantly, he's from a Muslim Pakistani family and his father was a Windrush-generation bus driver. Not that it has *anything* to do with his appointment of course...

    He's also a former banker, so he *may* not be totally stupid and incompetent.
    If he does a half-decent job - which he well might - and May dodges the several bullets that are headed her way over Windrush - which she well might - then I suspect Corbyn might see that delicate poll lead of his ebb away.

    It's tragic that the best the opposition can do is a one-percent lead over this pisspoor shower of lightweights.
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 19988
    As someone left of centre myself, I am absolutely terrified of the prospect of a Labour/Momentum Government. They are absolutely clueless re any form of fiscal policy.

    As a Remainer, I am resigned to the fact we've got to get out of the mess but will still leave.

    As a middle ground scolialist, I believe that May and Javid at least will sell the country and have a plausible plan that won't have investors running for the trees.

    What I have never understood is why Corbyn didn't offer a remain alternative and hang his argument on the 'greater engagement with the EU' stance.

    If you leave, Tories will handle it better in my opinion.

    And, as long as Abbott remains a shadow back bencher, I will never vote Labour again. She's a buffoon.

    Donald Trump has spoken movingly about 7-Eleven. It reminded him, he said, of the way Americans came together in 1941 after Pearl Necklace.

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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    Gassage said:
    As someone left of centre myself, I am absolutely terrified of the prospect of a Labour/Momentum Government. They are absolutely clueless re any form of fiscal policy.

    As a Remainer, I am resigned to the fact we've got to get out of the mess but will still leave.

    As a middle ground scolialist, I believe that May and Javid at least will sell the country and have a plausible plan that won't have investors running for the trees.

    What I have never understood is why Corbyn didn't offer a remain alternative and hang his argument on the 'greater engagement with the EU' stance.

    If you leave, Tories will handle it better in my opinion.

    And, as long as Abbott remains a shadow back bencher, I will never vote Labour again. She's a buffoon.
    Oh for that centre-left sweet spot.  Oh golden days.

    It'll be back once America gets that clown out of the White House and people start to realise there's nothing to be offered by populist politics.

    My personal politics are way left of centre, but there's a point where you realise that it doesn't work as a basis for running a country and you have to compromise a bit and give a bit.  Unfortunately the Labour Party, a.k.a. The People's Front of Judea, never got the memo.
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 19988
    Gotta laugh at people suggesting Javid will be promimmigration as he’s an immigrant himself.

    thats like arguing the Queen should be able to service my Mercedes as she’s second gen German 

    Donald Trump has spoken movingly about 7-Eleven. It reminded him, he said, of the way Americans came together in 1941 after Pearl Necklace.

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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    edited April 30
    Gassage said:
    Gotta laugh at people suggesting Javid will be promimmigration as he’s an immigrant himself.
    He bollocks will he be. 

    But given the majority of the electorate, when asked, are in favour of the 'hostile' approach to illegals, I shouldn't think a robust stance on 'normal' immigration will hurt him much.  There are plenty who are against.

    Edit - those claims of mine about the electorate are in here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/30/rudd-has-gone-but-hostile-environment-policy-set-to-stay
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16249
    Gassage said:
    Gotta laugh at people suggesting Javid will be promimmigration as he’s an immigrant himself.

    thats like arguing the Queen should be able to service my Mercedes as she’s second gen German 
    Javid is hardcore immigration control. That's partly why he's got the job.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16249
    ICBM said:
    Sajid Javid to replace Rudd.

    He's leave isnt he
    No, remain. More importantly, he's from a Muslim Pakistani family and his father was a Windrush-generation bus driver. Not that it has *anything* to do with his appointment of course...

    He's also a former banker, so he *may* not be totally stupid and incompetent.
    Momentum are already calling him an Uncle Tom Tory ...
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1366
    Gassage said:


    What I have never understood is why Corbyn didn't offer a remain alternative and hang his argument on the 'greater engagement with the EU' stance.


    That's because he, and his advisers (eg Seamus Milne, Steve Howell and now Andrew Murray, who are all ex Straight Left magazine) are vehemnetly anti EU.

    Corbyn was only persuaded to take a pro-EU stance during the referendum because he was told that he would alienate his London /SE fan base, who are amost exclusively remainers.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31601
    edited April 30
    randella said:

    If he does a half-decent job - which he well might - and May dodges the several bullets that are headed her way over Windrush - which she well might - then I suspect Corbyn might see that delicate poll lead of his ebb away.
    If he does a decent job, then in about five years we could have the interesting scenario of both the major parties led by people of Pakistani Muslim descent, since Sadiq Khan is one of the more credible replacements for Corbyn if he loses the next election. (Although Javid is not actually a practising Muslim.)

    Gassage said:
    As someone left of centre myself, I am absolutely terrified of the prospect of a Labour/Momentum Government. They are absolutely clueless re any form of fiscal policy.
    I don't agree at all. If anything they understand the real problems better than the Tories seem to.

    Gassage said:

    As a Remainer, I am resigned to the fact we've got to get out of the mess but will still leave.
    Likewise.

    Gassage said:

    What I have never understood is why Corbyn didn't offer a remain alternative and hang his argument on the 'greater engagement with the EU' stance.
    Because Corbyn is a (not very) secret Leaver.

    Gassage said:

    If you leave, Tories will handle it better in my opinion.
    I think that's unlikely. Their default position is a harder Brexit than Labour's.

    Gassage said:

    And, as long as Abbott remains a shadow back bencher, I will never vote Labour again. She's a buffoon.
    That's true, but I suspect that she would find herself given enough rope and then quickly disposed of when she becomes an embarrassment.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6179
    been a fun year for TM, this time last year it was all strong and stable, but the last year has become death by a thousand cuts. It's fcking hilarious to watch. Bet she's half wishing she'd never taken over now.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    edited April 30
    VimFuego said:
    been a fun year for TM, this time last year it was all strong and stable, but the last year has become death by a thousand cuts. It's fcking hilarious to watch. Bet she's half wishing she'd never taken over now.
    I never really understood at the time why any of them wanted the job.  There surely was a neon sign with 'poisoned chalice' hanging over the top of it.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31601
    VimFuego said:
    been a fun year for TM, this time last year it was all strong and stable, but the last year has become death by a thousand cuts. It's fcking hilarious to watch. Bet she's half wishing she'd never taken over now.
    I recently found myself wondering whether, self-important odious weasel that he is, Gove might actually have been less of a disaster...
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 19988
    @ICBM

    If Corbyn got in, the City would walk.
    We'd be the poundland of Europe within a week.

    Most of all, he's not a natural leader; he lacks vision above task level.

    Re Brexit, personal position means nothing. Had they offered an alternative, they'd have won last year.

    Donald Trump has spoken movingly about 7-Eleven. It reminded him, he said, of the way Americans came together in 1941 after Pearl Necklace.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31601
    Gassage said:

    If Corbyn got in, the City would walk.
    We'd be the poundland of Europe within a week.
    I doubt it. They have too much invested here. There's at least as much chance of them bailing out if Brexit goes wrong.

    Gassage said:

    Most of all, he's not a natural leader; he lacks vision above task level.
    I agree, but he may be a good 'chairman of the committee', which is sometimes more important. Attlee was not a charismatic leader either, but he was arguably our greatest Prime Minister - as opposed to Churchill who was our greatest leader. Although, Corbyn doesn't have the authority or the pool of talent that Attlee had to work with, I think.

    Gassage said:

    Re Brexit, personal position means nothing. Had they offered an alternative, they'd have won last year.
    I'm not sure. I got the impression that the election was actually very little determined by Brexit, and was more about the lack of competence of May and the domestic social agenda, which Corbyn did well on.




    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 19988
    @ICBM
    The City is ready and geared up to leave- this would be the straw that breaks.

    Donald Trump has spoken movingly about 7-Eleven. It reminded him, he said, of the way Americans came together in 1941 after Pearl Necklace.

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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    edited April 30
    ICBM said:
    randella said:

    If he does a half-decent job - which he well might - and May dodges the several bullets that are headed her way over Windrush - which she well might - then I suspect Corbyn might see that delicate poll lead of his ebb away.
    If he does a decent job, then in about five years we could have the interesting scenario of both the major parties led by people of Pakistani Muslim descent, since Sadiq Khan is one of the more credible replacements for Corbyn if he loses the next election. (Although Javid is not actually a practising Muslim.)
    It wouldn't do any harm for Labour.  If you look only at the public face, the Tories have their second woman as Prime Minister and the first person of ethnic minority descent as Home Secretary.  Meanwhile Labour, tied up with Momentum, seem to attract old white men who like to stalk women and demean Jews.

    You know, this thread has depressed me.  Not because of the commentary which is, as usual, interesting and intelligent.  It's simply a sad reminder of the parlous state of politics in this country.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31601
    Gassage said:

    The City is ready and geared up to leave- this would be the straw that breaks.
    That may be so, but if they did it would be a necessary price worth paying to get rid of this government, and if it reduced our over-dependence on the financial sector that wouldn't be a bad thing.

    My guess is that it would be a bluff anyway. They don't like regulation and the last thing they want is McDonnell in No. 11, but in the end they would lose a lot of business by leaving as well.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 19988
    ICBM said:
    Gassage said:

    The City is ready and geared up to leave- this would be the straw that breaks.
    That may be so, but if they did it would be a necessary price worth paying to get rid of this government, and if it reduced our over-dependence on the financial sector that wouldn't be a bad thing.

    My guess is that it would be a bluff anyway. They don't like regulation and the last thing they want is McDonnell in No. 11, but in the end they would lose a lot of business by leaving as well.
    What on earth are you going to replace it with?

    Donald Trump has spoken movingly about 7-Eleven. It reminded him, he said, of the way Americans came together in 1941 after Pearl Necklace.

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16249
    Gassage said:
    @ICBM

    If Corbyn got in, the City would walk.
    We'd be the poundland of Europe within a week.

    Most of all, he's not a natural leader; he lacks vision above task level.

    Re Brexit, personal position means nothing. Had they offered an alternative, they'd have won last year.

    Walk where exactly? Corbyn's not an idiot. He'll want to keep the cash cow that is the City on board. Corbyn's first target will be tax dodgers (they'll leave) and his war on Amazon and the other US companies that dodge tax. Taxes will rise - I foresee an 80% inheritance tax rate and a property tax. This will mostly hit Tory voters so a sound tax on people whose wealth is derived from the fact their house has gone up in value.

    Then nationalise the power and water industry - this is why Corbyn wants out of the EU so he can take control of an industry that is run by EU-based conglomerates. Rail will be nationalised as the franchises expire.

    Corbyn will probably keep the UK in the Customs Union which solves the Ireland issue.

    I know there's doom and gloom but anything has to be better than this Tory government - I don't agree that Corbyn could be worse.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • jpfampsjpfamps Frets: 1366
    ICBM said:
    randella said:

    If he does a half-decent job - which he well might - and May dodges the several bullets that are headed her way over Windrush - which she well might - then I suspect Corbyn might see that delicate poll lead of his ebb away.
    If he does a decent job, then in about five years we could have the interesting scenario of both the major parties led by people of Pakistani Muslim descent, since Sadiq Khan is one of the more credible replacements for Corbyn if he loses the next election. (Although Javid is not actually a practising Muslim.)


    The Corbynistas really don't like Sadiq Khan, so if they get full control of the party (and they are pretty close now) then it's unlikely Khan will succeed Corbyn.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31601
    edited April 30
    Gassage said:

    What on earth are you going to replace it with?
    Maybe we will have to learn to do something useful again... like all the other European countries which don't have over-dominant financial sectors.

    I'm not suggesting this is possible in the short term - but I don't agree that the whole finance industry will move out en masse the day after Labour wins an election either.

    jpfamps said:

    The Corbynistas really don't like Sadiq Khan, so if they get full control of the party (and they are pretty close now) then it's unlikely Khan will succeed Corbyn.
    That's why I think it's only likely as a scenario if Corbyn loses the next election.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    edited April 30
    ICBM said:

    I agree, but he may be a good 'chairman of the committee', which is sometimes more important. Attlee was not a charismatic leader either, but he was arguably our greatest Prime Minister - as opposed to Churchill who was our greatest leader. Although, Corbyn doesn't have the authority or the pool of talent that Attlee had to work with, I think.


    You answered your own question there, I think.

    The shadow cabinet has the illusion of democracy about it, your man himself said he wanted to open it up a bit and give some up-and-comers a shot.

    The truth of that matter, though, is that the four top jobs are held by the faces they are for one reason and one reason only - their dedication to the cause of J. Corbyn.  A cabal of four, and not an ounce of competence among them.

    I gather, and I've no reason to doubt this, that they're all terrific MPs at a local level.  Which leads neatly to my next gripe - 'local' for the Government According To Jeremy means 'London'.

    Corbyn - Islington North
    Thornberry - Islington South
    McDonnell - Hayes and Harlington
    Abbott - Hackney North
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 6179
    Fretwired said:
    Gassage said:
    @ICBM

    If Corbyn got in, the City would walk.
    We'd be the poundland of Europe within a week.

    Most of all, he's not a natural leader; he lacks vision above task level.

    Re Brexit, personal position means nothing. Had they offered an alternative, they'd have won last year.

    Walk where exactly? Corbyn's not an idiot. He'll want to keep the cash cow that is the City on board. Corbyn's first target will be tax dodgers (they'll leave) and his war on Amazon and the other US companies that dodge tax. Taxes will rise - I foresee an 80% inheritance tax rate and a property tax. This will mostly hit Tory voters so a sound tax on people whose wealth is derived from the fact their house has gone up in value.

    Then nationalise the power and water industry - this is why Corbyn wants out of the EU so he can take control of an industry that is run by EU-based conglomerates. Rail will be nationalised as the franchises expire.

    Corbyn will probably keep the UK in the Customs Union which solves the Ireland issue.

    I know there's doom and gloom but anything has to be better than this Tory government - I don't agree that Corbyn could be worse.
    yeah, people have been talking the city gonna leave BS for years now, without any actual evidence (other than this chap told me in the pub kind of thing) to back it up. I laugh whenever I see people say it.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16249
    jpfamps said:
    ICBM said:
    randella said:

    If he does a half-decent job - which he well might - and May dodges the several bullets that are headed her way over Windrush - which she well might - then I suspect Corbyn might see that delicate poll lead of his ebb away.
    If he does a decent job, then in about five years we could have the interesting scenario of both the major parties led by people of Pakistani Muslim descent, since Sadiq Khan is one of the more credible replacements for Corbyn if he loses the next election. (Although Javid is not actually a practising Muslim.)


    The Corbynistas really don't like Sadiq Khan, so if they get full control of the party (and they are pretty close now) then it's unlikely Khan will succeed Corbyn.
    Starmer will be a shoe-in. I think Abbott will go when Corbyn goes as will a few of the other older Labour MPs to be replaced by a bunch of young progressive left wingers.

    Khan will remain as London Mayor for as long as he wants. The Tories are now toxic in London. Watch the blood bath on Thursday.
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11037
    Gassage said:
    Gotta laugh at people suggesting Javid will be promimmigration as he’s an immigrant himself.

    thats like arguing the Queen should be able to service my Mercedes as she’s second gen German 
    Seeing some of the vitriol on Twitter makes one think that UKIP's vote take will be up come the next election. The notion of a Muslim London mayor and a Muslim home secretary clearly ruffles the brain cell of some creatures out there. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11037
    Fretwired said:
    Starmer will be a shoe-in. I think Abbott will go when Corbyn goes as will a few of the other older Labour MPs to be replaced by a bunch of young progressive left wingers.


    There will be a lot of people who would feel it is time for a woman to lead Labour as it's somewhat to be 0-2 against the Conservatives. A Jess Phillips-Keir Starmer leadership would be as good as it can get with the Labour party as it is right now.
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 31601
    Gassage said:
    Gotta laugh at people suggesting Javid will be promimmigration as he’s an immigrant himself.
    Not suggesting *he* will - but I doubt that the potential effect his appointment might have, especially on members of the Windrush-era community, will have been lost on May.

    Heartfeltdawn said:

    Seeing some of the vitriol on Twitter makes one think that UKIP's vote take will be up come the next election. The notion of a Muslim London mayor and a Muslim home secretary clearly ruffles the brain cell of some creatures out there. 
    Yes. I doubt the fact that Javid is not a practising Muslim would make any difference there either.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone."
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  • randellarandella Frets: 1804
    edited April 30
    ICBM said:
    Heartfeltdawn said:

    Seeing some of the vitriol on Twitter makes one think that UKIP's vote take will be up come the next election. The notion of a Muslim London mayor and a Muslim home secretary clearly ruffles the brain cell of some creatures out there. 
    Yes. I doubt the fact that Javid is not a practising Muslim would make any difference there either.
    If it's anything like the torrent of shite Abbott has had to deal with then he's in for a rough ride.

    I've not much time for either of them, but I don't think one's up to carrying out a very important job and I don't agree with the other's politics.  Weirdly I'm able to leave it at that without immediately taking to the internet and issuing anonymous rape threats.  I can't even begin to fathom the mentality of those who willingly do just that.

    I feel very, very sorry for anyone who does have to deal with it.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 11037
    edited April 30
    Absolutely not, ICBM. Some of the monocelled creatures out there also believe that Rudd's removal is proof of a Remainer plot to screw Brexit up by picking off Cabinet ministers, gleefuly ignoring the fact that most of the high profile sackings have been Remainers. The fruitcake crowd are in full voice at the minute and a lot of them are not liking the Conservatives at the minute. So Remainer plots by killing off Remainers, Muslim Home Secretaries... if we have the loony left, than it's full-on rabid right in some quarters. 
    I make Jeremy Paxman look like Fingermouse. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 16249
    The knives are out .. send for International Rescue ...


    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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