Pondering a new amp with power scaling - any thoughts on these?

rlw

I'm tempted to go and try both the Tone King Gremlin and the Morgan MPV23.  Two different amps but both offering useful things, at a price.  Buying s/h is not an option so let's not go there.  Has anyone tried either of them, successfully or not?

FreddieVanHalen

I haven’t tried either of those, but have played a Morgan ac40.

The power scaling of the Morgan I found useful but it did not get the amp down to household levels of it was fully cranked.

If you’re stumping up for new it’s probably worth trying one at the store, no?

sweepy

Not a fan of inbuilt power scaling, just not keen on the way it changes the tone, maybe look at a Hot Plate etc and then find one that suits. The iron Man system on the Tone King range is supposed to be one of the best but I hated it on my Sky King, made it sound cheap and nasty imho

ICBM

I've never played an amp with power scaling that I thought sounded as good as an outboard attenuator or even a well-designed master volume control. Just my opinion...

rlw

I am going to try them, but it's not the easiest thing to find two in the same place at the same time, or even close. Really trying to decide whether it's worth even doing that.  I am more drawn towards the Gremlin as it has the iron man attenuator and is cheaper too..................

Failing this, do I look at more solid state amps - Award Session or Blues Cube Hot?  My little Juketone is a nice amp but I am coming to the conclusion that 12 inch speakers provide a deeper and more open sound at low levels.  Or maybe I should expand my pedal collection some more.

Anacharsis

I play the Blues Cube Hot, and I love the power scaling. The 1/2 watt setting is perfect for home, and maintains the feel of the higher power settings. Roland did a great job with these, IMO.

I think some of what people critique about power scaling is really about the loss of less obvious feedback effects and the general differences that happen when you dramatically drop volume. 

ICBM

Anacharsis said:

I play the Blues Cube Hot, and I love the power scaling. The 1/2 watt setting is perfect for home, and maintains the feel of the higher power settings. Roland did a great job with these, IMO.

I think some of what people critique about power scaling is really about the loss of less obvious feedback effects and the general differences that happen when you dramatically drop volume. 

I don't think you can necessarily compare the power setting function in a solid-state amp with power scaling in a valve amp. They're likely to work in very different ways, and the rest of the amp circuit and its response to different volume levels will be different as well.

It also doesn't explain why turning down the master volume sounds better than turning down the power scaling, on an amp with both.

hywelg

The only way you're going to know is to try them.  IME PS is only good down to half power,  about the same reductio in volume as an attenuator. And a speaker change. But in  combination the sum can be a lot lesspower . Still not enough for bedroom volume.

FreddieVanHalen

sweepy said:

Not a fan of inbuilt power scaling, just not keen on the way it changes the tone, maybe look at a Hot Plate etc and then find one that suits. The iron Man system on the Tone King range is supposed to be one of the best but I hated it on my Sky King, made it sound cheap and nasty imho

It’s funny cause I’m quite happy with both power scaling and the attenuators on the sky king.

I’m not putting down your experience, but it does show how personal folks tone preferences can be.

Trying them out for yourself has to be the way to go If possible.

Load boxes and IRs could be the other option but is a little more faff...

RiftAmps

I’m with @ICBM on this one. Never found one that sounds good nor one that doesn’t add fizz.

rlw

I'm going to try before I buy, and probably drive some poor salesman mad in the process. 

People do seem to rave about Tone King amps - hence my interest - but the only way to tell is to try one.

Funnily enough, I was in GuitarGuitar a few weeks ago and there was a bloke playing a dead fancy PRS through a Friedman something at no more than loud conversation level and that sounded bloody awful to my ears - all fizz and spit - so maybe it is something about my hearing too.

mr-mac

Seen and used a toneking and owner demonstrated the power scaling and it seemed to work really well indeed.

Jimbro66

I don’t see Power Scaling as a means to get a cooking amp down to bedroom levels. To my ear my 65 DRRI sounds best with volume at around 7 which is too loud for smaller gig venues needing a volume setting of maybe 4 - 5. The built in Power Scaling lets me set the amp to 7 to hit the sweet spot whilst not being too loud. Used that way Power Scaling is fine but if used for a much greater volume reduction it doesn’t sound so good IMO.

Anacharsis

ICBM said:

Anacharsis said:

I play the Blues Cube Hot, and I love the power scaling. The 1/2 watt setting is perfect for home, and maintains the feel of the higher power settings. Roland did a great job with these, IMO.

I think some of what people critique about power scaling is really about the loss of less obvious feedback effects and the general differences that happen when you dramatically drop volume. 

I don't think you can necessarily compare the power setting function in a solid-state amp with power scaling in a valve amp. They're likely to work in very different ways, and the rest of the amp circuit and its response to different volume levels will be different as well.

It also doesn't explain why turning down the master volume sounds better than turning down the power scaling, on an amp with both.

No doubt, they are very different situations. I guess my comment was meant to say that if it doesn't work out in a valve amp with scaling, there are now other options out there.

springhead

I've built power scaling into a JTM 45 and a Tweed Deluxe, and a few homebrew single ended and push-pull designs.  I find it very effective at reducing volume but keeping the tone intact - unless you want bedroom level then forget it, as is the case with attenuators too.  They all roll off treble or increase fizz.

With power scaling, unlike a simple master volume, you can maintain power amp distortion if that's your thing, and for those amps where that form of distortion is in important part of their character.  The valves also run at lower dissipation, hence live longer, which is a good thing for increasingly costly devices like old GEC KT 66's.

I don't think there's any magic system to run stage amps at home friendly levels.  If nothing else human ears give different response at lower SPL. However for gigging your 50W, or even 20W amp on '10' in a small venue I think power scaling is an effective way of reducing volume and keeping the tone broadly the same.

 

normula1

I have it in my stereo power amp (15 watt-sh) per side and I use it to get the amp to that point where it starts to compress a bit without particularly distorting. Essentially just taking the edge off a bit.
I tried fiiting the PS module to my Lionheart first and didn't like it at all. A simple l-pad attenuator sounded way better.

sweepy

The Sky King system gave a nasty upper mid hump that really grated on my ears and changed the dynamics and not in a good way, but very few people hear the same anyway or we'd all be using Boss DS-!'s and a Valvestate

RandallFlagg

Mesa Boogie power scaling is pretty good and useable.

ICBM

RandallFlagg said:

Mesa Boogie power scaling is pretty good and useable.

Mesa amps don't have power scaling...

sweepy

they have Triode Pentode switching I thought, like my Bad Cat, but I never use that as I don't like the loss in dynamics

ICBM

sweepy said:

they have Triode Pentode switching I thought ?

Not as far as I know.

They have several different systems - turning off two valves in a 4-valve amp, running a single valve, cutting the mains supply voltage (but like a Variac - the primary voltage to the amp is effectively reduced), and using two separate push-pull valve sets (one of which is triode, in some amps), or sometimes more than one of these in the same amp. None of these are the same as either power scaling or pentode/triode switching though.