Breaking high e string whilst bending, always at the tuning post.

Arktik83

So I've had this problem with breaking a string whilst bending on one of my guitars.  It always the high e and it's always at the tuning post.  The guitar has those infernal grover locking tuners that lock the string in whilst you tune up rather than have the thumbwheel at the back (I really do not care for locking tuners).

I've googled it and people say it's probably a burr within the post and to run a wound string through it, I've done that and today I put a set of Elixir 11's on it and within about three bends it snapped again.  Same place.

If I put ten's on it though it's no problem whatsoever.  I had a skinny top heavy bottom set on there and you could bend it no problem.  Now I'm not talking three tone bends or something extreme, just a one tone the majority of the time.

Any ideas/suggestions?  Long term I'll probably get shot of the tuners and put something a bit more traditional on but any opinions/advice would be appreciated. 

Ta!

Funkfingers

Could be a sharp edge on the hole drilled through the tuning post. 

Could be that you are over-tightening the locking wheel.

On the Grovers with the asymmetrically drilled stringing hole, you may be offering the string up to the post with the post in the wrong orientation. This will force the string to make an excessively sharp bend, fatiguing the steel and leading to premature breakage.

guitars4you

Funkfingers said:

Could be a sharp edge on the hole drilled through the tuning post. 

Could be that you are over-tightening the locking wheel.

On the Grovers with the asymmetrically drilled stringing hole, you may be offering the string up to the post with the post in the wrong orientation. This will force the string to make an excessively sharp bend, fatiguing the steel and leading to premature breakage.

my thought pattern as well - get some fine wet n dry - drop through and around all the contact points to hopefully clean remove any rough debris - You probably won't know it is cured until you stop breaking strings

Also try changing the E and G tuners - see what happens then

Funkfingers

guitars4you said:
try changing the E and G tuners - see what happens then

Good suggestion.

If, after the change, the string breakages occur on the G, the problem is a burr. 

If, after the change, the string breakages continue on the E, the problem was not a burr.

Since the Grovers are self-tightening, theoretically, they cannot over-tighten. That leaves the asymmetric stringing hole explanation. 

Bigsby

FWIW, I had the same issue on a new Yamaha SG. Trying to get it sorted through the dealer (Guitarguitar) sounded like it would be a nightmare, so I contacted Grover. They were very helpful and sent me an exchange tuner. No issues so far with it, but I have to admit I prefer the thumbwheel design on locking tuners. 

guitars4you

Funkfingers said:

guitars4you said:
try changing the E and G tuners - see what happens then

Good suggestion.

If, after the change, the string breakages occur on the G, the problem is a burr. 

If, after the change, the string breakages continue on the E, the problem was not a burr.

Since the Grovers are self-tightening, theoretically, they cannot over-tighten. That leaves the asymmetric stringing hole explanation. 

agree although I was also hoping a 17 gauge G might be more sturdy/robust than a thin 10 E - so in some ways hoping the problem might go away if not technically cured - If you follow that logic

TA22GT

Bigsby said:

FWIW, I had the same issue on a new Yamaha SG. Trying to get it sorted through the dealer (Guitarguitar) sounded like it would be a nightmare, so I contacted Grover. They were very helpful and sent me an exchange tuner. No issues so far with it, but I have to admit I prefer the thumbwheel design on locking tuners. 

I replaced the locking tuners on my new Yamaha SG the day I bought it! 

 I fitted new strings and just hated the tuners so I fitted a new set of Gotoh "kluson" type tuners and couldn't be happier with the old manual string change. 
Personally I think locking tuners are an answer to a problem I don't have.

ICBM

guitars4you said:

Also try changing the E and G tuners - see what happens then

guitars4you said:

I was also hoping a 17 gauge G might be more sturdy/robust than a thin 10 E - so in some ways hoping the problem might go away if not technically cured - If you follow that logic

I would do this first. Very simple, and there's a good chance it will 'fix' the problem exactly for that reason.

Arktik83

Thanks for all the input guys, long term I'll be replacing the tuners as I don't really care for locking ones but will try out the E & G trick!

Voxman

I had exactly the same problem on the same string on my Yamaha Pacifica 611vfm. I could have swapped the machine heads around but the very nice folk at Grover sent me a new machine head and it's been perfect ever since. 

Arktik83

So I put a new set of strings on and it didn't break at all when bending but when I went to trim the string I literally just pulled the the slack outside the tuning post tight to cut it and the string just snapped right before the post so I'm guessing one more bend it would have snapped it again.  It was on the inside of the post, towards the nut rather than towards the headstock.

I'm gonna try swapping the E and G tuners but if that doesn't work, how did you guys (@Voxman ;, @Bigsby) ;contact grover for a replacement and did you have to show proof of purchase?  I bought the guitar second hand from guitarguitar so I doubt I'm gonna get much out of them!

Fed up with this now...

Bigsby

Arktik83 said:

I'm gonna try swapping the E and G tuners but if that doesn't work, how did you guys (@Voxman ;, @Bigsby) contact grover for a replacement and did you have to show proof of purchase?  I bought the guitar second hand from guitarguitar so I doubt I'm gonna get much out of them!

Fed up with this now...

I just emailed them from the contact address on their web site. Got a reply the next day: "Send the one tuner back to us with a copy of your E mail and we will replace it." I've had no issues since installing the new tuner.

Lord_Spanielchip

This was an issue I had on an Epi Les Paul 60s Tribute Plus with the same type of tuners - always breaking the top E when bending. There’s a certain way to have to string post when you thread the string through which is indicated by the tiny hole on the string post itself. I have to look it up every time I change the strings because I can never remember which way round it is. I’m pretty sure I found the ‘correct’ way on the mylespaul forum.

https://www.grotro.com/Grover/2154a941-6e5d-484f-a28c-2640779e7038/LOCKING-ROTOMATICS/Installation-Instruction-for-106-406 - this may help.

Voxman

Arktik83 said:

So I put a new set of strings on and it didn't break at all when bending but when I went to trim the string I literally just pulled the the slack outside the tuning post tight to cut it and the string just snapped right before the post so I'm guessing one more bend it would have snapped it again.  It was on the inside of the post, towards the nut rather than towards the headstock.

I'm gonna try swapping the E and G tuners but if that doesn't work, how did you guys (@Voxman ;;, @Bigsby) ;;contact grover for a replacement and did you have to show proof of purchase?  I bought the guitar second hand from guitarguitar so I doubt I'm gonna get much out of them!

Fed up with this now...

Email Chuck Kirschling<Chuck@grotro.com>; at Grovers, who was really helpful and sent me a replacement tuner (didn't even ask me for the original back) with no fuss or needing any receipt of purchase  - I couldn't see the machinehead on their website but sent them a photo which enabled them to correctly identify it. Great after-sales customer service and been perfect ever-since.

Lord_Spanielchip said:

This was an issue I had on an Epi Les Paul 60s Tribute Plus with the same type of tuners - always breaking the top E when bending. There’s a certain way to have to string post when you thread the string through which is indicated by the tiny hole on the string post itself. I have to look it up every time I change the strings because I can never remember which way round it is. I’m pretty sure I found the ‘correct’ way on the mylespaul forum.

https://www.grotro.com/Grover/2154a941-6e5d-484f-a28c-2640779e7038/LOCKING-ROTOMATICS/Installation-Instruction-for-106-406 - this may help.

@Lord_Spanielchip , 'fraid not - that didn't have anything to do with the problem.  There was simply a burr on the machinehead that cut into the string.

Lord_Spanielchip

@Voxman just giving my insight - ensuring the correct orientation of the tuner solved the problem for me.

Voxman

Lord_Spanielchip said:

@Voxman just giving my insight - ensuring the correct orientation of the tuner solved the problem for me.

I appreciate that, and glad it worked for you - my problem with the tuner was simply physical. 

Arktik83

Thanks for the input, gents. 

I did the ol G and E tuner swaperoo and it seemed to work for a few hours but now I've broken another string bending at the same place.  I'm completely perplexed!  It doesn't break anywhere on the fretboard, it breaks behind the nut and is pretty much right near the tuning post of the high e.  

I think the action needs adjustment, it was buzzing out on the bottom three strings so I raised it a little but I haven't done that to the top three strings, could that cause an issue?  It's weird because when I had light top/heavy bottom strings it was perfectly fine.

robgilmo

Have you lubricated your nut? Have a look at the slot with a maggy glass.

ICBM

It can’t be the nut or the action. If it’s constantly breaking strings at the machineheads then it is the machineheads. It’s obviously not limited to just one, so if you can’t find any sharp edges and you’re sure you’re stringing them right, you may need to replace them.

John_A

Arktik83 said:

Thanks for the input, gents. 

I did the ol G and E tuner swaperoo and it seemed to work for a few hours but now I've broken another string bending at the same place.  I'm completely perplexed!  It doesn't break anywhere on the fretboard, it breaks behind the nut and is pretty much right near the tuning post of the high e.  

I think the action needs adjustment, it was buzzing out on the bottom three strings so I raised it a little but I haven't done that to the top three strings, could that cause an issue?  It's weird because when I had light top/heavy bottom strings it was perfectly fine.

If you’ve put a slightly lighter string gauge on to will have less relief, verified if the buzzing is on the first few frets and better higher up the neck, you Amy need to loosen the truss rod 1/4 turn

As for where the strings are breaking, I would suggest if it’s not something to do with your stringing technique, maybe kinking the strings when you put them on, it’s faulty tuners.

Arktik83

Cheers all, I have an immense dislike for these kinds of tuners anyway so they were on borrowed time in the first place.  Will just replace them with some non-locking variants.  Thanks again!