Car Insurance Prices Rant

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RabsRabs Frets: 1055

Well for the first time in a few years I decided to shop about a bit with my car insurance cos the last few years I was just too busy and didn't get the time so just allowed it to auto renew...  My goodness what a minefield...

What I don't understand is that now Third Party only is more expensive than fully comp... It makes no sense what so ever.. Then you actually add stuff like business use and it gets cheaper?

I started off with Aviva who wanted something like £550 for full comp ( I have 10 years no claims by the way).  My car is almost 15 years old now so I said how much for third party only and it went up to like £600????   Apparently their whatever research tells them that people who only have third party insurance care less so are more likely to have an accident??

So I went to a compare web site and indeed in every case third party only or third party fire and theft is more expensive?  When did that happen?

So I went for the cheapest I could find which was Hastings Direct at £299 and called them up as there was a few questions I had after filling in my details on the web site... We went through all the details and he had on their system that I had a fault accident that I hadn't claimed, I had said it was no fault as that's what I was told by my current insurance (apparently it was a 50/50 and they paid no money out so its a no fault?). Even with that fault included we found out that it was actually even cheaper to go for their premium insurance and this is fully comp and business use including commuting to and from work and it ended up at £247...

It makes absolutely no sense at all...???

Anyway.. Rant over. I just don't get it?

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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 1447
    Thats cheap as chips by my books! 

    Mine is £850 fully comp, no points, claims or modifications on a standard 1.5ltr diesel megane.. 

    No claims of 9 years have absolutely no effect it appears as it doesnt budge.. ever. 

    Fucking annoying situation because I need it to get to work, unless I want to sit on trains at 11pm, which I really don’t fancy.. 

    It must be the ‘London’ area I live in, which is 20 miles from any type of London I’ve ever seen.. 

    Ridiculous. 

    Not only that but my only real job prospects are minimum wage affairs, so realistically I’m probably better off on jobseekers, not needing a car and all the other outgoings of working life, and  gaining employment support and some free medical attention. 

    Its massively disheartening. 
    The little I do bring home is taken by these theives to enable me to get to work to pay them... 
    like a catch 22. 

    Whats the bloody point. 

    I feel you though. 

    Where is the breakdown for what our money is buying us? Why arent these people regulated by someone?! 

    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 5631
    Wow @skunkwerx that is hideously expensive. I pay £300 on a 3.5L V6 import.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 4230
    once you have enough no claims, it just varies on where you live. Mine went down 60% when I moved 20 miles outside Manchester

    Recently I've been paying around £300 now on a monster fast expensive car, since new
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 1055
    skunkwerx said:
    Thats cheap as chips by my books! 

    Mine is £850 fully comp, no points, claims or modifications on a standard 1.5ltr diesel megane.. 

    No claims of 9 years have absolutely no effect it appears as it doesnt budge.. ever. 

    Fucking annoying situation because I need it to get to work, unless I want to sit on trains at 11pm, which I really don’t fancy.. 

    It must be the ‘London’ area I live in, which is 20 miles from any type of London I’ve ever seen.. 

    Ridiculous. 

    Not only that but my only real job prospects are minimum wage affairs, so realistically I’m probably better off on jobseekers, not needing a car and all the other outgoings of working life, and  gaining employment support and some free medical attention. 

    Its massively disheartening. 
    The little I do bring home is taken by these theives to enable me to get to work to pay them... 
    like a catch 22. 

    Whats the bloody point. 

    I feel you though. 

    Where is the breakdown for what our money is buying us? Why arent these people regulated by someone?! 


    Ohh don't get me wrong.. I was totally shocked at that price and im happy with it.. I just found it bizarre that the more we added to the insurance the cheaper it got.. It made no sense at all...  Oh and I live in London too, on the outskirts but still London  (E4)..

    Its just the whole thing stinks of statistical analysis which as far as I am concerned is usually wrong..

    So for instance.. They take note that I will use my car for going to and from work, but don't ask me how long the journey is or if I use the motorway for instance.. My actual journey time is like 10 mins.. So isn't much of a commute...  But I get lumped in with people who are driving for over an hour on and probably use a motorway or main road.. 

    OR being self employed or what ever your status is.  Each one comes with a totally unrealistic perception of what that means in terms of how more or less likely it is you will have an accident.. I mean really, even if you don't care about your car much, who just goes around driving in to people on purpose (well I know there are some that do, but that's an insurance scam and different to your average person).

    And then when you actually have an accident these days it takes like 6 months for them to do anything about it and unless someone hits you in the back or theres proof either way which there usually isn't it will just go 50/50 anyway.. Just a pointless rip off.. Let alone that the minimum excess these days is like 350...

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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 1447
    Rabs said:
    skunkwerx said:
    Thats cheap as chips by my books! 

    Mine is £850 fully comp, no points, claims or modifications on a standard 1.5ltr diesel megane.. 

    No claims of 9 years have absolutely no effect it appears as it doesnt budge.. ever. 

    Fucking annoying situation because I need it to get to work, unless I want to sit on trains at 11pm, which I really don’t fancy.. 

    It must be the ‘London’ area I live in, which is 20 miles from any type of London I’ve ever seen.. 

    Ridiculous. 

    Not only that but my only real job prospects are minimum wage affairs, so realistically I’m probably better off on jobseekers, not needing a car and all the other outgoings of working life, and  gaining employment support and some free medical attention. 

    Its massively disheartening. 
    The little I do bring home is taken by these theives to enable me to get to work to pay them... 
    like a catch 22. 

    Whats the bloody point. 

    I feel you though. 

    Where is the breakdown for what our money is buying us? Why arent these people regulated by someone?! 


    Ohh don't get me wrong.. I was totally shocked at that price and im happy with it.. I just found it bizarre that the more we added to the insurance the cheaper it got.. It made no sense at all...  Oh and I live in London too, on the outskirts but still London  (E4)..

    Its just the whole thing stinks of statistical analysis which as far as I am concerned is usually wrong..

    So for instance.. They take note that I will use my car for going to and from work, but don't ask me how long the journey is or if I use the motorway for instance.. My actual journey time is like 10 mins.. So isn't much of a commute...  But I get lumped in with people who are driving for over an hour on and probably use a motorway or main road.. 

    OR being self employed or what ever your status is.  Each one comes with a totally unrealistic perception of what that means in terms of how more or less likely it is you will have an accident.. I mean really, even if you don't care about your car much, who just goes around driving in to people on purpose (well I know there are some that do, but that's an insurance scam and different to your average person).

    And then when you actually have an accident these days it takes like 6 months for them to do anything about it and unless someone hits you in the back or theres proof either way which there usually isn't it will just go 50/50 anyway.. Just a pointless rip off.. Let alone that the minimum excess these days is like 350...

    Exactly man. Its just bloody nuts. 

    Same, my journey home is always 11pm. So generally I’m on empty roads the whole way. 

    Im 30 now, so I don’t suppose its ever going to drop unless I move, which is a whole new problem. 

    The annoying part is, a dearly departed friend of mine lived 15 miles away, but we worked/commuted to the same area, had lost his licence through speeding, regained it, then went on to buy an Audi S7... that was a £60k car from a driver who had his licence revoked, and his insurance was half of what mine is now, 6 years ago... 

    Nothing about insurance makes any sense to me. 

    The fact there is no paperwork to tell me why I’m paying what I’m paying, and what for makes me so angry. 

    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 1055
    skunkwerx said:
     
    Exactly man. Its just bloody nuts. 

    Same, my journey home is always 11pm. So generally I’m on empty roads the whole way. 

    Im 30 now, so I don’t suppose its ever going to drop unless I move, which is a whole new problem. 

    The annoying part is, a dearly departed friend of mine lived 15 miles away, but we worked/commuted to the same area, had lost his licence through speeding, regained it, then went on to buy an Audi S7... that was a £60k car from a driver who had his licence revoked, and his insurance was half of what mine is now, 6 years ago... 

    Nothing about insurance makes any sense to me. 

    The fact there is no paperwork to tell me why I’m paying what I’m paying, and what for makes me so angry. 

    Which company are you with?  Trotters Independent Traders?  :)
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 4556
    I've been with RAC for a while but a recent price increase made me look around - Full no claim protected etc - went on a comparison site - Filled in all the appropriate form/questions - Whilst a few were cheaper I also found RAC to be cheaper than my quote with them - So with a new potential quote and ID number I called them as to why I can find it nearly £200 cheaper on line as a potential customer as against a renew option - They couldn't explain why but they were happy that the quote was  a like for like with nothing missing or added on - So I cancelled the potential renew policy with the RAC and purchased the new one with RAC - same company and saved £200
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  • Rabs said:
    skunkwerx said:
    Thats cheap as chips by my books! 

    Mine is £850 fully comp, no points, claims or modifications on a standard 1.5ltr diesel megane.. 

    No claims of 9 years have absolutely no effect it appears as it doesnt budge.. ever. 

    Fucking annoying situation because I need it to get to work, unless I want to sit on trains at 11pm, which I really don’t fancy.. 

    It must be the ‘London’ area I live in, which is 20 miles from any type of London I’ve ever seen.. 



    Ohh don't get me wrong.. I was totally shocked at that price and im happy with it.. I just found it bizarre that the more we added to the insurance the cheaper it got.. It made no sense at all...  Oh and I live in London too, on the outskirts but still London  (E4)..


    Postcode makes a massive difference.
    I am nudging 50 with full NCD. Fully comp on a 3 year old Citroen Cactus 1.1 (so not exactly a hot hatch!) is £540.
    My sister lives 3 miles away, is 3 years older and has a bloody Kuga 1.6 Diesel (brand new) and her fully comp insurance is £350. I just happen to live in a hotspot postcode.
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 15025
    Rabs said:

    Its just the whole thing stinks of statistical analysis which as far as I am concerned is usually wrong..

    So for instance.. They take note that I will use my car for going to and from work, but don't ask me how long the journey is or if I use the motorway for instance.. My actual journey time is like 10 mins.. So isn't much of a commute...  But I get lumped in with people who are driving for over an hour on and probably use a motorway or main road.. 

    That will all change in the next few years.

    Currently your insurance covers risk whether your drive or not.  Just having the car on your driveway will cost you as much as if you drive x,000 miles pa.

    Shortly, you'll pay a fixed charge for having the car, plus an amount that varies depending on how, when and where you use the car.

    How; a few long journeys are generally "safer" than lots of short journeys.  But if your long journeys >4hrs, then they get dangerous again.

    When;  school run and late evenings (and early mornings) are higher risk.  So will become more expensive.

    Where;  roads have accident hotspots (blackspots).  If your journeys involve those, you'll pay more.


    I tried putting together a business c15yrs ago based on that model, but - tbh - the technology wasn't up to it.  However, I did a lot of the analysis to underpin the pricing.  The technology is now more than capable - and proven, and widely adopted - so it'll happen.


    But yes, it's all based on statistical analysis, which will always be wrong in some cases, but generally right!
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 3615
    It’s all about risks and statistics.


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  • RabsRabs Frets: 1055
    edited August 12
    TTony said:
    Rabs said:

    Its just the whole thing stinks of statistical analysis which as far as I am concerned is usually wrong..

    So for instance.. They take note that I will use my car for going to and from work, but don't ask me how long the journey is or if I use the motorway for instance.. My actual journey time is like 10 mins.. So isn't much of a commute...  But I get lumped in with people who are driving for over an hour on and probably use a motorway or main road.. 

    That will all change in the next few years.

    Currently your insurance covers risk whether your drive or not.  Just having the car on your driveway will cost you as much as if you drive x,000 miles pa.

    Shortly, you'll pay a fixed charge for having the car, plus an amount that varies depending on how, when and where you use the car.

    How; a few long journeys are generally "safer" than lots of short journeys.  But if your long journeys >4hrs, then they get dangerous again.

    When;  school run and late evenings (and early mornings) are higher risk.  So will become more expensive.

    Where;  roads have accident hotspots (blackspots).  If your journeys involve those, you'll pay more.


    I tried putting together a business c15yrs ago based on that model, but - tbh - the technology wasn't up to it.  However, I did a lot of the analysis to underpin the pricing.  The technology is now more than capable - and proven, and widely adopted - so it'll happen.


    But yes, it's all based on statistical analysis, which will always be wrong in some cases, but generally right!


    That's interesting...   So what happens if theres more than one way to do your journey?  Will the just charge you for the most expensive one or will it be up to the customer to know which way may have a black spot and which doesn't?

    And yes I do generally tend to avoid rush hour and school drop times so hopefully I wont get crapped on when they bring this in.. If indeed my circumstances are still the same at that point.

    The thing is in my case im probably a bit unusual... My work place is my parents garage..  So if im going there to just visit them or im going there to work I don't see why that would make any difference but it probably will.. I still find it bizarre to take someone's life and  then categorise them based on some very generalised questions.. We are all different and have different reasons for what we do and it seems to me that statistical analysis just dehumanises people to a bunch of facts and doesn't take in to account why so you just get lumped in with what ever the average is which is why I say its probably more often wrong than wright like the third party thing, that they think that people who want third party only care less about there cars, what utter nonsense.  And while I get that they need to use some type of system, I don't trust it at all....

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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 15025
    Rabs said:

    That's interesting...   So what happens if theres more than one way to do your journey?  Will the just charge you for the most expensive one or will it be up to the customer to know which way may have a black spot and which doesn't?

    The phone app tracks you every step (or wheel) of the way.

    It knows exactly which route you took, what time of day, what speed you travelled at, etc.

    15yrs ago, we didn't have the mobile phone app technology, so didn't have an easy way of implementing (it needed a version of the under-bonnet black box which increased the cost and hassle factor).  Now everyone has the mobile phone, the app will be free, and those who think that they'll benefit will happily install it.  

    Those who think that they won't benefit will find their "normal" style premium loaded so that eventually everyone adopts it.

    BigBro.
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 1055
    edited August 12
    TTony said:
    Rabs said:

    That's interesting...   So what happens if theres more than one way to do your journey?  Will the just charge you for the most expensive one or will it be up to the customer to know which way may have a black spot and which doesn't?

    The phone app tracks you every step (or wheel) of the way.

    It knows exactly which route you took, what time of day, what speed you travelled at, etc.

    15yrs ago, we didn't have the mobile phone app technology, so didn't have an easy way of implementing (it needed a version of the under-bonnet black box which increased the cost and hassle factor).  Now everyone has the mobile phone, the app will be free, and those who think that they'll benefit will happily install it.  

    Those who think that they won't benefit will find their "normal" style premium loaded so that eventually everyone adopts it.

    BigBro.

    Ahh ok.  I see what you mean...  I guess there will probably be a point where they track your speed and you automatically get a fine if it registers you over the speed limit.. I can just see it   Arggggghhhhhhhh  I will probably just give up driving at that point
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  • LegionreturnsLegionreturns Frets: 5114
    The reason TPFT and TPO policies cost more is because hardly anyone offers them anymore. 

    You get "Bucket Shop at Lloyds" and "We only insure taxis which have no value with 300k on the clock" and most of the big players purely compete for the fully comp, max bonus market. 

    Shop around every year, and don't bother with voluntary excess, the difference is minimal but could cost you loads of you have a ding. 

    My Trading Feedback    |    You Bring The Band

    Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 15025

    You get "Bucket Shop at Lloyds" 
    Lloyd's tend to insure risks that no-one else will touch, rather than being "bucket shops".  They're set up for the real non-standard risks rather than offering a cheapest-service to anything.

    My first policy was with a Lloyd's syndicate.  Mid-1980's, and early 20s yo me (without NCD) decided that a Peugeot 205 GTi was the car to have.

    It was.  

    But I had trouble finding an insurer to cover it!  Enter Lloyd's syndicate.
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  • LegionreturnsLegionreturns Frets: 5114
    TTony said:

    You get "Bucket Shop at Lloyds" 
    Lloyd's tend to insure risks that no-one else will touch, rather than being "bucket shops".  They're set up for the real non-standard risks rather than offering a cheapest-service to anything.

    My first policy was with a Lloyd's syndicate.  Mid-1980's, and early 20s yo me (without NCD) decided that a Peugeot 205 GTi was the car to have.

    It was.  

    But I had trouble finding an insurer to cover it!  Enter Lloyd's syndicate.
    True enough, I spent 16 years dealing with Lloyd's to place risks that nobody wanted. 

    There were and still are some bucket shop car insurers. My guess is you were with Highway/ Pegasus or Sabre back then? 

    My Trading Feedback    |    You Bring The Band

    Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 15025
    I really don't remember - I worked for Willis back in those days, and got one of the brokers to do me a favour!
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  • ClashmanClashman Frets: 155
    Just walk it costs nowt..
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 1447
    Clashman said:
    Just walk it costs nowt..
    Ah it would cost the same in trainers for my commute lol!
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • once you have enough no claims, it just varies on where you live. Mine went down 60% when I moved 20 miles outside Manchester

    Recently I've been paying around £300 now on a monster fast expensive car, since new
    Mine did too moving from Didsbury to City Center Edinburgh. 
    I eventually got rid of my car 18months ago- I realised the car was costing £1000+ a year BEFORE I drove it anywhere. I only did 2.5k miles per year, so it's cheaper to do the Enterprise Car Club thing. 
    Anything under 30miles & I ride my bike, I've got panniers for shopping & seats for my two kids, in the city it's MUCH quicker than driving. 
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 3328
    The reason TPFT and TPO policies cost more is because hardly anyone offers them anymore. 
    This is probably in response to falling demand. 

    TPO only ever made sense for insuring the sort of deathtrap banger cars that emissions legislation and the 2009 Scrappage Scheme have removed from the roads. 
    "It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue."
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3824

    Third party used to make sense for new drivers - especially young ones.  A lot of my friends rolled cars or wrapped them around trees etc when I was young.  If the insurance companies don't have to pay out for those kind of things, it should be cheaper.

    Most of us on here seem to be slightly older than the boy racer demographic.  I'd be interested to see what the quotes would look like for a 19 year old.  These days, it seems like the only way that a 19 year old can get insurance is the black box/phone app model.

    Give it 10 or 15 years though, and the whole market will change with driverless cars coming onto the scene.  Accidents should become less common, which should bring premiums down.  Once a reasonable number of driverless cars are on the road, it will change driving habits as well.  For instance, you won't be able to do 45mph in a 30mph limit when there is a driverless car in front of you doing 30mph.  It will probably only need 1 in 5 of the cars on the roads to be driverless to bring about a significant change in the way people (are forced to) drive.

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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 1947
    once you have enough no claims, it just varies on where you live. Mine went down 60% when I moved 20 miles outside Manchester

    Recently I've been paying around £300 now on a monster fast expensive car, since new
    Your job title has a significant impact on prices too. I saw a 20% decrease or so when I incorporated my company... was a sole trader, now a company director, basically doing the same work but the title alone meant I was less of a risk I suppose.
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 545
    Just got my renewal through from Aviva.

    10% increase in the premium with no justification. But, if you renew online "we'll only charge you 5% more".

    Wankers.
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 1947
    NelsonP said:
    Just got my renewal through from Aviva.

    10% increase in the premium with no justification. But, if you renew online "we'll only charge you 5% more".

    Wankers.
    That's no fun - I use Aviva and they've consistently dropped my price every year, by 20 quid or so.

    Best thing to do is get a better competing quote and ring them up...
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  • There is no loyalty discount with car insurance companies, and no doubt as an industry it is severely in need of much tighter regulation to deliver better value for money for consumers.

    The best thing to do is spend the time shopping around when it is time to renew.
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 5129
    Rabs said:
    skunkwerx said:
    Thats cheap as chips by my books! 

    Mine is £850 fully comp, no points, claims or modifications on a standard 1.5ltr diesel megane.. 

    No claims of 9 years have absolutely no effect it appears as it doesnt budge.. ever. 

    Fucking annoying situation because I need it to get to work, unless I want to sit on trains at 11pm, which I really don’t fancy.. 

    It must be the ‘London’ area I live in, which is 20 miles from any type of London I’ve ever seen.. 



    Ohh don't get me wrong.. I was totally shocked at that price and im happy with it.. I just found it bizarre that the more we added to the insurance the cheaper it got.. It made no sense at all...  Oh and I live in London too, on the outskirts but still London  (E4)..


    Postcode makes a massive difference.
    I am nudging 50 with full NCD. Fully comp on a 3 year old Citroen Cactus 1.1 (so not exactly a hot hatch!) is £540.
    My sister lives 3 miles away, is 3 years older and has a bloody Kuga 1.6 Diesel (brand new) and her fully comp insurance is £350. I just happen to live in a hotspot postcode.
    Definitely seems to depend on postcode more than anything else. If there’s been a spate of claims in one area their computers pick it up and they’ll ramp up the premium.

    Both those quotes above seem ridiculous though. I’m paying £380 fully comp on a 3 litre Jag with two named drivers. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3824
    boogieman said:

    Definitely seems to depend on postcode more than anything else. If there’s been a spate of claims in one area their computers pick it up and they’ll ramp up the premium.

    Depends on the model as well.  There was a spate of Golf GTIs and BMWs getting nicked around our area a few years ago.   It would have cost a fortune to insure one of them around here.

    One of the advantages of driving a Toyota Verso with a dent in the door is that it's not high on the list of the kind of cars that get stolen.

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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 7198
    I have two vehicles and although neither is exactly a performance vehicle one is worth about ten times as much as the other yet the insurance costs are almost identical. There are some slight differences in the policies but not that much ( and the more expensive vehicle policy includes some European cover) so I guess insuring me at my address comes to about £270.* 

    Your job title has a significant impact on prices too. I saw a 20% decrease or so when I incorporated my company... was a sole trader, now a company director, basically doing the same work but the title alone meant I was less of a risk I suppose.

    The one policy came up when I was unemployed and they wouldn't renew it. Changed that to 'homemaker' ( as I wasn't using it for work I couldn't see the difference) and it went through.

    * ignoring the extra £600 to have my son as a named driver.       
    Dum dum dum, dum dum de dum, dum dum dum, dum dummmm.
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 545
    The annual car insurance seach is getting pretty tedious. 

    I just called Aviva and they can't reduce the premium any further (computer says no)
    Their competitors (Admiral) are offering an identical policy for £75 less.

    That will keep a couple of my guitars in new strings for a year.
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