Mahogany v Rosewood

jellyroll

Having 3 OM variants, I feel that in the interests of scientific research I ought to “home test” a dreadnought. 

This has got me thinking about Mahogany vs Rosewood back & sides; essentially D18 vs D28. 

The differences between my Mahogany (apologies, I cannot bring my self to type “hog”) and Rosewood OMs may be due to the wood but could be due to other differences between my guitars (different scale lengths, 12 vs 14 frets, handmade vs factory, etc). 

My gut feel about the impact of the wood is that Mahogany makes the guitar more visceral and immediate whilst Rosewood makes the guitar thicker sounding, warmer, a little more orchestral. 

Does any of that resonate with you guys? Or am I ascribing characteristics to the wood which are, in fact, the result of other features of the guitars?

I suppose I’m wondering if, because my preferred OM is Mahogany (Spruce top), my preferred Dred is also likely to be Mahogany. Or maybe I prefer that particular OM despite it being Mahogany rather than because it is Mahogany.... 

All these existential questions.....

What is your experience of the two woods?

BigLicks67

My initial response tends to be that Mahogany has more warmth to the sound and Rosewood is more hi fi in sound. From a listening point of view I think a Rosewood dread sounds better, but I like the qualities of mahogany when playing. Obviously, this is based on identical or similar instruments from the same maker, a quality luthier could make a guitar made from any wood sound good I'd imagine.

AliGorie

BigLicks67 said:

My initial response tends to be that Mahogany has more warmth to the sound and Rosewood is more hi fi in sound. From a listening point of view I think a Rosewood dread sounds better, but I like the qualities of mahogany when playing. Obviously, this is based on identical or similar instruments from the same maker, a quality luthier could make a guitar made from any wood sound good I'd imagine.

an aspect that's often overlooked is the (scientifically named) 'Velocity of Sound',

viz"Mahogany has more warmth to the sound and Rosewood is more hi fi in sound."

not got much time now (aren't u lucky?) more latter.

ICBM

Maple.

earwighoney

jellyroll said:

Having 3 OM variants, I feel that in the interests of scientific research I ought to “home test” a dreadnought. 

This has got me thinking about Mahogany vs Rosewood back & sides; essentially D18 vs D28. 

The differences between my Mahogany (apologies, I cannot bring my self to type “hog”) and Rosewood OMs may be due to the wood but could be due to other differences between my guitars (different scale lengths, 12 vs 14 frets, handmade vs factory, etc). 

My gut feel about the impact of the wood is that Mahogany makes the guitar more visceral and immediate whilst Rosewood makes the guitar thicker sounding, warmer, a little more orchestral. 

Does any of that resonate with you guys? Or am I ascribing characteristics to the wood which are, in fact, the result of other features of the guitars?

I suppose I’m wondering if, because my preferred OM is Mahogany (Spruce top), my preferred Dred is also likely to be Mahogany. Or maybe I prefer that particular OM despite it being Mahogany rather than because it is Mahogany.... 

All these existential questions.....

What is your experience of the two woods?

All things being exact for soundboard and bracing (which it never is) the presumption Mahogany guitars favour the midrange and have a dryer response whilst Rosewood ones have more presence and sustain in the bass and trebles.  So it could be seen that Mahogany is 'warmer' and rosewood guitars could be 'brighter' and 'darker' at the same time.  

 There are other woods as well, Maple being the 'another' alternative with the possibly the greatest history after the two already mentioned.  

octatonic

IMHO wood species is less important than other design elements. 
There is a difference but it is less pronounced that 12 vs 14 fret, or bracing stiffness, soundboard tap tuning etc.

Also you get variation from one piece of rosewood or mahogany to another.
They have tendencies though and mahogany has a more pronounced midrange with a soft top end.
Paired with a Sitka SB is quite different to a mahogany SB.

Rosewood has a more neutral middle and sweeter top end.

You can ruin either build by screwing up the bracing.

earwighoney

octatonic said:

IMHO wood species is less important than other design elements. 
There is a difference but it is less pronounced that 12 vs 14 fret, or bracing stiffness, soundboard tap tuning etc.

Also you get variation from one piece of rosewood or mahogany to another.
They have tendencies though and mahogany has a more pronounced midrange with a soft top end.
Paired with a Sitka SB is quite different to a mahogany SB.

Rosewood has a more neutral middle and sweeter top end.

You can ruin either build by screwing up the bracing.

I agree about bracing, as the maker of an acoustic guitar will contribute far greater to the tonal identity of the guitar than the materials and bracing is one of the factors the maker will provide their own character to the tonal identity. 

A Taylor made from Spruce/Rosewood will sound considerably different to a Martin of the same materials.  Not better or worse but different. 

stuartryanmusic

I've become a big fan of mahogany, especially for fingerstyle - I prefer the string separation and each string sits perfectly in its own space whereas rosewood (to my ears at least) creates a certain 'smearing' between the strings which can be great for some things. The fast, dry response of mahogany and adirondack has become the ultimate combination for me!

terada

Firstly, both can be absolutely lovely, and the process of going out and trying loads is great fun.

In general (and all else being equal) Rosewood b/s would be slightly scooped, while mahogany b/s would have a flatter or slightly mid pushed eq curve.

But bracing and body size also play a very important role. In very general terms, either forward shifting the bracing or having thinner bracing would encourage a boomier response.

With regard to the D18 and D28 (reimagined), both have 5/16" forward shifted bracing. However, the D18 has scalloped bracing, which makes them thinner and therefore the top is more able to vibrate. For a scalloped D28 guitar you'd be looking at an HD28. 

crunchman

terada said:

For a scalloped D28 guitar you'd be looking at an HD28. 

The older HD28s weren't "forward shifted" - it was just a scalloped version of the bracing on the D28.  To get forward shifted scalloped bracing you had to go for the HD28V.  If you buy second hand bear this in mind.

Almost all of the new ones have 1 3/4" nut width.  Glad I bought my HD28V when it was 1 11/16".

terada

crunchman said:

terada said:

For a scalloped D28 guitar you'd be looking at an HD28. 

The older HD28s weren't "forward shifted" - it was just a scalloped version of the bracing on the D28.  To get forward shifted scalloped bracing you had to go for the HD28V.  If you buy second hand bear this in mind.

Almost all of the new ones have 1 3/4" nut width.  Glad I bought my HD28V when it was 1 11/16".

Thanks, didn't realise that. Completely agree with you on the 1 11/16 nut, glad I picked up my HD35 a few years ago also!

How do you find the v neck on the 28v?

It is a shame as I'd love a 15 series with short scale and 1 11/16 nut, but they don't make them anymore 

crunchman

terada said:

crunchman said:

terada said:

For a scalloped D28 guitar you'd be looking at an HD28. 

The older HD28s weren't "forward shifted" - it was just a scalloped version of the bracing on the D28.  To get forward shifted scalloped bracing you had to go for the HD28V.  If you buy second hand bear this in mind.

Almost all of the new ones have 1 3/4" nut width.  Glad I bought my HD28V when it was 1 11/16".

Thanks, didn't realise that. Completely agree with you on the 1 11/16 nut, glad I picked up my HD35 a few years ago also!

How do you find the v neck on the 28v?

It is a shame as I'd love a 15 series with short scale and 1 11/16 nut, but they don't make them anymore 

Love it.

I've been looking at electrics with V necks as well.  That 10/56 Fender neck is appealing.

BigLicks67

crunchman said:

terada said:

crunchman said:

terada said:

How do you find the v neck on the 28v?

It is a shame as I'd love a 15 series with short scale and 1 11/16 nut, but they don't make them anymore 

Love it.

I've been looking at electrics with V necks as well.  That 10/56 Fender neck is appealing.

I'd be careful with the Fender V necks. I love the neck on my OM18V but really couldn't get on the EJ strat neck which was described as a soft V.

stickyfiddle

I really like mahogany in other people's hands, but for some reason I always find myself wanting lots of top end for my own gear, so prefer rosewood. 

When I bought my Dove (maple, obv) I played it against a bunch of D18/D28/etc types and the close second was a D28. I've since swapped the Dove for a mid-2000s HD28 and it's basically the perfect "acoustic guitar sound in my head"-sound. Not as toppy as the Dove but much richer

Gagaryn

All things being equal, think I prefer mahogany although rosewood generally looks nicer. Mahogany with adirondack spruce is a nice combo. :-)

AliGorie

Jel, sorry for my seemingly ot input above - it was something I was thinking about 'immediacy' of sound - but hey, Stuzzy made a comment  re 'fast response' which some guitars have. A lot has to do with the sound board design / materials but the b/sides contribute a distinct ’reflective’ quality to the timbre.
Having played mainly acoustic for over fifty years I’ve come to the conclusion it’s the WHOLE guitar not the component parts -  u said -
Mahogany (apologies, I cannot bring my self to type “hog”) and Rosewood OMs may be due to the wood but could be due to other differences between my guitars (different scale lengths, 12 vs 14 frets, handmade vs factory, etc). “
Well with this seemingly simple example - u got many differences - e.g. soundboard thickness, bracing dimensions / profile / positioning and so on - lets not forget bridge plate material and dimensions - only joking (or an I).
Nah - it’s the whole thing.
I’ve also said here in the past - given MY  string choice AND playing technique I find these override top and back materials - I generate my sound on any (well made) guitar.
 

jellyroll

Thanks all. Ali - you're probably right, I'm overthinking it and should just consider each guitar on its merits. Truth is though, I love thinking about this stuff...

AliGorie

JR - I’d suggest u try a bit of building - I know it may seem at first an ott doting task.
It would move / replace the endless cycle of ‘GAS’ and replace it with ‘WAS’ (wood acquisition syndrome’) and / or ‘TAS’ (tool acquisition syndrome’) - just my experience.

I got the opportunity on retirement to do a two year course at the  Anniesland (Glasgow), I thought it had folded but thankfully seems to have morphed into - Glasgow School of Lutherie / Glasgow Clyde College

https://www.facebook.com/770151089739379/photos/a.777604092327412/1042490745838744/?type=3

jellyroll

Thanks@AliGorie.

I’m imagining the conversation with my wife...

”Darling (for that is how I address her) I shan’t be buying any more guitars”

”Oh, good”

”From now on, I’m going to make my own. All I’ll need is a few hand tools and a workbench. And some wood of course. Some Mahogany for the back and sides. Some Spruce. Ebony for the appointments. Perhaps some Koa for the binding. Maybe an electric saw. And a router. Some chemicals for spraying the coating. And ventilation of course. And some where to hang the guitar between spray coats....”

”Jelly, just go to a shop and BUY the bloody guitar”

Win Win!

AliGorie

sorry to go off topic JR, yeah when I'd finished the course my family WANTED me to create a 'workshop' - I costed it - eh no.

I did amass a nice wee stash of tonewood though.

At my stage in life laying out £xxxx?? didn't seem a sensible thing to be doing - so chickened out.

My point was, I have never thought about changing guitars, after much consideration once the initial purchase is decided on - thats it. Two main guitars - one for 30 yrs one for  20 years (gigging) though I did buy a far eastern knock about which goes to 'jams' etc. great little OM -ish I dont have to worry about. I find the elusiveness of 'the music', both in playing and composing is satisfying enough for me.

jellyroll

AliGorie said:

I find the elusiveness of 'the music', both in playing and composing is satisfying enough for me.

I’m a little different. Just like playing with different cameras is part of my photography hobby, so is experiencing the sound of different guitars part of this hobby. It may well be a reflection of my musical shortcomings - which are abundant! I’m not obsessing though; I don’t really have GAS - that driving need to buy more - I’m just curious and interested about different instruments. I admire the craftsmanship and the beauty of different woods and enjoy the different experiences each instrument can bring.