K&K Pure Mini users... is it okay with a full band and if you're singing?

camf

@ICBM ; @Lewy ; @thomasross20 ; I know you guys all use the K&K pure mini and I used one briefly at home and really like it. I'm thinking of installing it again on what will be my main gigging guitar but I'm concerned that it seems to have a reputation of being less useful in a full band setting, especially if you have voals in the floor monitors. What's you experience of it? I already have a LR Baggs M1a in my J45 that I can sue if I need to play bigger venues, but I like the simplicity and sound of the K&K in the short time I had it. Is the answer just to make sure you have it in a decent preamp and DI and make sure you pack a feedback buster/soundhole plug just in case?

Cheers,

cam f

Lewy

Can't help I'm afraid as I've only ever used it on small acoustic combo type gigs without drums. People do say it's more feedback prone in loud settings but I bet it would be fine with careful EQ

camf

Cheers @Lewy.

thomasross20

Yep sorry, sadly I've never gigged it. That is sad, actually..

camf

Soon...  You'll be back gigging before long, I'm sure.

crunchman

I've used one in church.  We are pretty loud by church standards and I am often just a few feet away from acoustic drums without a screen around them.  It's been absolutely fine there with both the guitar and my vocals through a floor wedge, along with a bit of some other instruments.  I've not even needed a feedback buster.

camf

Cheers @crunchman that's exactly what I needed to know. I like the sound of the K&K better than my M1a, although it's still a very useful backup. 

ICBM

Sadly I have no personal experience of gigging one, since Gibson decided to make my Dove with a tooling hole in the bridgeplate that makes fitting the K&K impossible...

I may have to investigate the Baggs iBeam passive, since I really don't like the Fishman UST it currently has.

camf

Thanks @ICBM, and I guess you won't be supergluing any K&K's for a while.  

Kristo

I've gigged mine a few times at decent volumes with monitors and had no issues, just guitar straight into an Orchid Muting DI and then the desk.  

camf

Cheers Kristo, that's probably going to be my signal chain too. 

ICBM

camf said:

Thanks @ICBM, and I guess you won't be supergluing any K&K's for a while.  

Unfortunately not. It's very much a two-handed job .

TheBigDipper

I've gigged one in a L'Arrivee, but not playing rhythm in a big band setting with a loud onstage volume. I'm assuming you mean a rock band with loud drums and stuff? The acoustic only came out when the band was being quiet.

Whatever you do, though, I'd certainly suggest a K&K preamp. It was like night and day for me in taking control of my sound and not being at the mercy of whatever you get asked to plug into. Pedal-sized, so fits on a board if you want to. It makes your sound consistently good and acoustic-like (your playing, however, may vary...). I've got the XLR version.

camf

Thanks @TheBigDipper. I think the Orchid or the K&K should do the job. I have one of these Behringer AD121s that does the job too, but probably not as well or as reliably as the more high-end units. 

jpfamps

Singer / guitarist in one of the bands I play in has this system in his Santa Cruz.

He uses it with an LR Baggs Venue DI.

We've got excellent results with this system.

To my ears it sound much better than an under saddle piezo.

As with any acoustic pickup system it benefits from careful eq.

I've had a look at the K&K pre-amps, and they seemed OK, but lacking in features, eg notch filter, phase inversion, swept mid control.

camf

Thanks @jpfamps ;; The LR Baggs Venue DI is the ideal tool for the job... but pricey. That said, if this acoustic stuff takes off, I might invest in one. It does look like it does everything you'd need.

TheBigDipper

jpfamps said:

<snip>

I've had a look at the K&K pre-amps, and they seemed OK, but lacking in features, eg notch filter, phase inversion, swept mid control.

You're right about all of that. I actually bought my K&K preamp before I started playing acoustic in public, so notch filters and the like weren't on my radar. It was to sort out the sound of my guitar into a PreSonus audio interface for recording. Previously the pickup sounded dead and dull into my DAW. That fixed it. I'm not a serious live acoustic player, so I've never looked seriously. It was an impulse purchase, convenient and very cheap at the time. Happily it worked out OK. 

preston61

I have the K&K in my Avalon and it sounds very good. I also use the Venue DI, which I managed to pick up for a great price, which when you consider it has a tuner as well as all the other eq'ing options, makes it a bit of a no brainer to be honest.

Having a dread style guitar and the K&K can be overly bassy at times, but a good preamp will help you to shape that a bit better.

I've only had feedback problems once, and that was a certain frequency on a capo'd guitar. I was playing right in front of a wedge at the time, but that was before I had the Venue it has never repeated itself . I am currently the only one playing though so I haven't tested it at the levels needed for a full band

jpfamps

preston61 said:

I have the K&K in my Avalon and it sounds very good. I also use the Venue DI, which I managed to pick up for a great price, which when you consider it has a tuner as well as all the other eq'ing options, makes it a bit of a no brainer to be honest.

Having a dread style guitar and the K&K can be overly bassy at times, but a good preamp will help you to shape that a bit better.

I've only had feedback problems once, and that was a certain frequency on a capo'd guitar. I was playing right in front of a wedge at the time, but that was before I had the Venue it has never repeated itself . I am currently the only one playing though so I haven't tested it at the levels needed for a full band

If you are playing acoustic with a full band you don't much bass (or indeed low mids) in the sound anyway; I would always use a HPF on the acoustic.

The Venue DI is great; the only minor issue is that the tuner is a bit slow. This is not a problem if you are staying in one tuning, but changing tunings mid set is probably impractical.

Andy_Strings

I use K&K in everything (OM, 000, Dreadnought, Parlour, Mandolin & 'zouk!!)  Always through a Red Eye Fire Eye preamp and I've never had any issues at all even when monitoring has been insanely loud.  The K&K needs a quality buffer to work at its best but rarely needs excessive EQ-ing so either a good DI or a good preamp (I've tried most things and the Red Eye is incredible).

jpfamps

Andy_Strings said:

I use K&K in everything (OM, 000, Dreadnought, Parlour, Mandolin & 'zouk!!)  Always through a Red Eye Fire Eye preamp and I've never had any issues at all even when monitoring has been insanely loud.  The K&K needs a quality buffer to work at its best but rarely needs excessive EQ-ing so either a good DI or a good preamp (I've tried most things and the Red Eye is incredible).

Most acoustic pickups require a high input impedance, typically 1-10 M, to work optimally.

The typical input impedance of mixing desk is 10k, which is way too low.

High impedance inputs are now appearing on mixing desks, eg the Allen Heath ZED desks have channels switchable to high impedance (10M).

The disadvantage of this approach is that any cabling between the guitar and desk will be prone to picking up noise, so a buffer in the guitar may be a better option.