MacBook Pro Audio Out Issue

JezWynd

Using the headphone out socket on my 2013 MacBook Pro to a pair of desktop powered monitors results in annoying background noise (fluttery distortion). It only occurs when the laptop is connected to mains power and is worse when scrolling pages. I already use a Ground Loop Isolator between the Mac and monitors which improves things somewhat but not entirely.

Is there any other remedy apart from only using the Mac on battery power? Some kind of power conditioner maybe? Any advice very gratefully received, it's driving me nuts!

andy_k

maybe look into a bluetooth adapter like an Mpow for the monitors? Im doing my mixing through I-louds connected by bluetooth, I dont really trust the 3.5 jack for longevity, for recording i'm using a focusrite saffire 2x2 connected by usb, and then i run those outputs to my I-louds, it works well for me.

JezWynd

andy_k said:

maybe look into a bluetooth adapter like an Mpow for the monitors? Im doing my mixing through I-louds connected by bluetooth, I dont really trust the 3.5 jack for longevity, for recording i'm using a focusrite saffire 2x2 connected by usb, and then i run those outputs to my I-louds, it works well for me.

Thanks, that's a fix I wasn't aware of. I'd really like to try and resolve the power issue if possible but if I can't I may try the Mpow. Mac laptops have had this issue to a greater or lesser extent for years; it's pretty poor, when you consider how Apple sell Macs as music/video workstations, that such a basic issue can't be fixed.

robinbowes

If you're doing any kind of serious audio work with any laptop you need an external soundcard. The headphone socket output is not great quality, and later Macs don't even have one!

R.

octatonic

robinbowes said:

If you're doing any kind of serious audio work with any laptop you need an external soundcard. The headphone socket output is not great quality, and later Macs don't even have one!

R.

Macs do have an audio output- even the 2018 MBP.
It is iPhones that do not.

But you are right- and audio interface will usually fix this noise/grounding issue unless there is some underlying power problem.
Alternatively using an external wireless keyboard and mouse can sometimes fix it.

robinbowes

octatonic said:

robinbowes said:

If you're doing any kind of serious audio work with any laptop you need an external soundcard. The headphone socket output is not great quality, and later Macs don't even have one!

R.

Macs do have an audio output- even the 2018 MBP.
It is iPhones that do not.

My bad, I was conflating the two.

TheBigDipper

If you're using Bluetooth to connect to your monitors or headphones, just stop and hear me out for a minute....

Sounds generated "inside the box" get created and written to disk as digital and never leave the digital domain. As we know, audio signals (guitars, mics, etc.) need to be converted from analogue to digital. The AD processors in audio interfaces - even cheap ones - will far outstrip the quality of the one embedded in your MBP.

The digital tracks inside your project will need to be heard. That means converting your 44.1/16 digital files to analogue so you can hear it. Again, the DA processors in an audio interface will outstrip your MBP embedded one. 

Now, if you're connected to your amplifiers or monitors or headphones using a wire, the great-sounding analogue signal will pass down the wire and you'll hear it in all it's glory.  

Bluetooth connectors will pass that great analogue signal through another AD process so it can transmit the signal to your headphone or earbuds or monitors. The quality of the conversion is low resolution and completely loses the high quality sound you have created. Then, at the other end, a DA process turns it back into low quality analogue audio.

It sucks. People use Bluetooth headsets for convenience, which is understandable, but it's not going to be a high quality signal. 

Buying even a cheap audio interface and connecting to it with wires is really the way to go. The fewer ADA processes you put your signal through, the better. If there is a Bluetooth ADA converter that works at 44.1/16 or higher I'd be interested in knowing, because I've never heard of one. Not that I'm looking.... 

octatonic

The biggest issue with BT is the incredible amount of latency that you will get- about 100ms or so.
It makes it useless for tracking, regardless of quality.

JezWynd

octatonic said:

robinbowes said:

If you're doing any kind of serious audio work with any laptop you need an external soundcard. The headphone socket output is not great quality, and later Macs don't even have one!

R.

Macs do have an audio output- even the 2018 MBP.
It is iPhones that do not.

But you are right- and audio interface will usually fix this noise/grounding issue unless there is some underlying power problem.
Alternatively using an external wireless keyboard and mouse can sometimes fix it.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I am using bluetooth keyboard and mouse so it isn't working in this instance.

I'm not using the Mac for recording, only for playing music and jam tracks so latency shouldn't be an issue but I'll keep an eye out for an audio in/out unit.


TheBigDipper said:

If you're using Bluetooth to connect to your monitors or headphones, just stop and hear me out for a minute....

Sounds generated "inside the box" get created and written to disk as digital and never leave the digital domain. As we know, audio signals (guitars, mics, etc.) need to be converted from analogue to digital. The AD processors in audio interfaces - even cheap ones - will far outstrip the quality of the one embedded in your MBP.

The digital tracks inside your project will need to be heard. That means converting your 44.1/16 digital files to analogue so you can hear it. Again, the DA processors in an audio interface will outstrip your MBP embedded one. 

Now, if you're connected to your amplifiers or monitors or headphones using a wire, the great-sounding analogue signal will pass down the wire and you'll hear it in all it's glory.  

Bluetooth connectors will pass that great analogue signal through another AD process so it can transmit the signal to your headphone or earbuds or monitors. The quality of the conversion is low resolution and completely loses the high quality sound you have created. Then, at the other end, a DA process turns it back into low quality analogue audio.

It sucks. People use Bluetooth headsets for convenience, which is understandable, but it's not going to be a high quality signal. 

Buying even a cheap audio interface and connecting to it with wires is really the way to go. The fewer ADA processes you put your signal through, the better. If there is a Bluetooth ADA converter that works at 44.1/16 or higher I'd be interested in knowing, because I've never heard of one. Not that I'm looking.... 

Thanks, that's an excellent summation of the issues. It is odd though that simply removing the mains power from the Mac cures the problem completely, which might indicate that it's not a DA issue in this instance. I know that having your Mac powered by mains has been problematic for many years when playing out video and audio to projectors etc.

As it seems to be a power related issue I was wondering if power conditioning might be able to cure it ,but all responses seem to focus on using an external DA device so that's probably the way to proceed.

TheBigDipper

@JezWynd Well, FWIW, using a really cheap PreSonus AudioBox iTwo sounds so much better than the onboard ADA convertor, and I've never had any noise issues with it when charging the battery on my MBP. 

For playing music, I've got an Oppo HA-2SE DAC/headphone amp and that's absolutely excellent with lossless music files and a decent pair of wired headphones. 

andy_k

TheBigDipper said:

If you're using Bluetooth to connect to your monitors or headphones, just stop and hear me out for a minute....

Sounds generated "inside the box" get created and written to disk as digital and never leave the digital domain. As we know, audio signals (guitars, mics, etc.) need to be converted from analogue to digital. The AD processors in audio interfaces - even cheap ones - will far outstrip the quality of the one embedded in your MBP.

The digital tracks inside your project will need to be heard. That means converting your 44.1/16 digital files to analogue so you can hear it. Again, the DA processors in an audio interface will outstrip your MBP embedded one. 

Now, if you're connected to your amplifiers or monitors or headphones using a wire, the great-sounding analogue signal will pass down the wire and you'll hear it in all it's glory.  

Bluetooth connectors will pass that great analogue signal through another AD process so it can transmit the signal to your headphone or earbuds or monitors. The quality of the conversion is low resolution and completely loses the high quality sound you have created. Then, at the other end, a DA process turns it back into low quality analogue audio.

It sucks. People use Bluetooth headsets for convenience, which is understandable, but it's not going to be a high quality signal. 

Buying even a cheap audio interface and connecting to it with wires is really the way to go. The fewer ADA processes you put your signal through, the better. If there is a Bluetooth ADA converter that works at 44.1/16 or higher I'd be interested in knowing, because I've never heard of one. Not that I'm looking.... 

thanks for the info,
i suggested the mpow for listening purposes, based on a review by ZEE, youtube, he is an audiophile loon who explained that Bluetooth has cought up in sound quality, and he hears no degradation in signal using 2 as AD-DA converters, by plugging one into his Phones. I love his reviews, think comic book guy from Simpsons.
My IK multimedia monitors, I-louds, have built in Bluetooth, and the convenience of this seems to work well for me when mixing from Reaper, Logic and Pro-tools, from both Mac and Pc, but I dont make a living with it, or profess to be an expert.
When I am recording, I'm using my Saffire which is connected to the I-louds with RCA -RCA cables, so latency isn't an issue. Just to be clear-I was suggesting trying a Bluetooth adaptor as a way of getting away from using the fragile 3.5mm jack, and only for listening purposes.
cheers
andy k