The amazing vanishing DS-1

Flanging_Fred

For a bit of an experiment, I replaced my Tim pedal on my pedalboard with as Boss ds1 and a sd1 to see if they could fulfill a similar function.  I took it along to band rehearsal last night and found that using the ds1 would make my sound disappear from the mix.  Now I know the pedal has a scooped tone and this was likely to happen but I was surprised to the extent. The level was at max, tone at about 9 o’clock and gain set to minimum.
, 
What surprised me the most was that if I ran the sd1 into the ds1, both with levels dimed, the ds1 would make the perceived volume quieter than just a sd1 on its own.  

Loads of famous players have successfully used a ds1 so how did they do it? I guess I was misusing it a bit.  Any tips on using a ds1 without just totally vanishing from the mix?  Anyone successfully using the humble ds1 in a band? 

BTW I did this to work out a low cost back up plan if the Tim goes AWOL. I might try a sd1 into an bd2 next, that might work better...

Branshen

What instruments are your bandmates playing?

ICBM

What amp are you using? The DS-1, like all scooped-sounding pedals (Big Muffs etc) will disappear in the mix much worse with a small amp than a big one. You need an amp with plenty of bottom-end.

And why are you running the gain at minimum? It's a DISTORTION pedal, not a booster .

Same with the SD-1. Don't set the gain too low, it's an overdrive pedal.

If you set both of them with a good amount of distortion, levels set to boost volume slightly into a clean amp, then either alone should boost volume into a slightly dirty one, and both together will be louder still.

Flanging_Fred

I'm using rhe clean channels of a pair of jcm800 combos.  

The sd1 had its gain up around 2oclock and as the evening progressed I raised the gain on the ds1.  The idea starting at minimum was that adding too much gain would just cause more mush in the mix.  It didn't seem to make too much difference as I brought it up though.

Despite its rather poor reputation, I rather like the ds1 normally, hence trying it out with band.  

Other instruments were just drums, bass, another guitar and vocals.

Modulus_Amps

I think the blues driver is also a bit scooped, last time I played one it was anyway.

I gigged for years with a DS-1 in a 4 piece band, don't ever remember getting lost in the mix, do you have a keyboard player playing every note/frequency... i.e. not giving you any space

Flanging_Fred

Modulus_Amps said:

I think the blues driver is also a bit scooped, last time I played one it was anyway.

I gigged for years with a DS-1 in a 4 piece band, don't ever remember getting lost in the mix, do you have a keyboard player playing every note/frequency... i.e. not giving you any space

Yeah , the Blues Driver has a pretty flat eq but it's got tons of volume on tap, which the ds1 doesn't have.

No keyboard in the band but it just occurred to me that the other guitarist is playing through a Fender Deville, which is pretty scooped sounding. Maybe I'm clashing a bit with him?

Winny_Pooh

Maybe its because DS-1s are generally awful. I grew to hate the one I had. Steve Vai and some 80's players got some good sounds out of them but that is apparently also due to the early MIJ models actually sounding different? 
I'd try a nobels ODR-1 alongside your sd-1

ICBM

Flanging_Fred said:

I'm using rhe clean channels of a pair of jcm800 combos.

The amps should be OK then... although it may be better to try the dirty channel with the gain down, I've always thought the clean channel was a bit flat-sounding on those.

Flanging_Fred said:

No keyboard in the band but it just occurred to me that the other guitarist is playing through a Fender Deville, which is pretty scooped sounding. Maybe I'm clashing a bit with him?

That might be it - if you switch from a sound with more mid to one which is closer to his more scooped tone, your volume will seem to disappear relative to his.

The Blues Driver is still a bit scooped, but less so than the DS-1 - worth trying. I would say it's closer in tone to the Tim (assuming the Tim is voiced the same as the Timmy, I've never tried a Tim) than the DS-1 is.

ThorpyFX

you need to place the SD1 after the DS1, the midhump of the SD1 and the relatively uncompressed sound will compliment the ds1 better in that configuration. running SD1 into DS1 adds too much extra drive in a  heavily saturated signal and as such it gets lost in the mix.

slacker

Imho try a fulldrive 2 às a Tim backup

Flanging_Fred

@ThorpyFX ;  Yep, that sound like a sensible thing to try.  It kind of goes against how I imagine things should work but I've been wrong before (don't tell my wife that though!)

ICBM

I've found the SD-1 into the DS-1 works far better than the other way round, because the SD-1 can't handle the bottom end from the DS-1 and just turns to mush - but the SD-1 has the ability to somehow boost "through" the DS-1 even when both have a fair amount of gain on. I always find stacking by EQ with middy into scooped works best.

But I may be using them differently from you - I tend to use a clean or light crunch on the amp with a fairly scooped EQ, and I use the pedals as standalone drives not to push the amp harder. Try them the other way round and see if it works for you...