Do you need to know the notes on the fretboard?

GuyBoden

Do you think you need to know the notes on the fretboard?

octatonic

'Need' is a relative term.

Need for what?

It is certainly helpful and not very hard to learn.

GuyBoden

octatonic said:

'Need' is a relative term.

Need for what?

It is certainly helpful and not very hard to learn.

So, is that a no then?

not_the_dj

I don't, well not instantly anyway apart from the low E and A strings. I can work out the rest if I need to from where the octave is two strings up. That gets me by. They'll be others that have stuck in my memory I guess.

octatonic

From me, actually it is a yes.

I urge people to learn the notes if they want to be versatile players, want to understand their instrument and want to be able to play all over the neck.

Some people don't want to do that though and 'need' is very much based on what you want to do.

It certainly won't hurt to know them and frankly if someone is too lazy to learn the notes then they are probably too lazy to do all the other stuff it takes to get good on the guitar.

But again, none of this is compulsory.

GuyBoden

octatonic said:

From me, actually it is a yes.

I urge people to learn the notes if they want to be versatile players, want to understand their instrument and want to be able to play all over the neck.

Some people don't want to do that though and 'need' is very much based on what you want to do.

It certainly won't hurt to know them and frankly if someone is too lazy to learn the notes then they are probably too lazy to do all the other stuff it takes to get good on the guitar.

But again, none of this is compulsory.

I see, I get what you're saying, very Zen, basically there is no real need for anything, that's very profound.

mike_l

James Hetfield doesn't and is hasn't harmed him.......

I'd say learn them, much easier to work out chords, and scales etc if you can analyse what notes you're playing. And you'll be able to transpose into different keys more easily.

Danny1969

You really do need to know where all the notes are. You need them to build chords, harmonize with others instantly without hitting a whole bunch of duff notes first. And what @Mike_l said as well 

I'm an old duffer. When I learnt guitar there was no tab ... so first thing we learnt was where all the notes were so we could play piano score on the guitar. 

viz

My opinion is: yes. Though as Octa says, it sort of depends on what you want to do. For me, I want to get to the bottom of this guitar thingy, and that means theory, technique, technology, composition, performance, fun with bands, etc, etc. And if I want to progress as far as my abilities will let me, then not knowing the instrument will definitely hold me back. I just had a guitar / music lesson and if I hadn't known the notes it would have been seriously slow progress and very frustrating for him. And very confusing for me. I suppose it's personal. But for me it's a yes.

monquixote

Do you have to: Nope

Does it help: Yep

Grunfeld

GuyBoden said:

Do you think you need to know the notes on the fretboard?

On your own, no; with other musicians, yes.

Sure, you can get by without knowing your notes but why would anyone do that?  This is our language, it's the way we communicate swiftly, accurately, and easily to others. 

axisus

I know some of the notes up to the first 5 frets. Seriously that's about it. I probably only know then because of bass playing, following root notes.

HAL9000

Definitely yes from me. Having learnt where the notes are, it is easier to construct properly thought out solos and fills. Before I knew the names of the notes everything was just so much mindless pentatonic widdling.

octatonic

GuyBoden said:

octatonic said:

From me, actually it is a yes.

I urge people to learn the notes if they want to be versatile players, want to understand their instrument and want to be able to play all over the neck.

Some people don't want to do that though and 'need' is very much based on what you want to do.

It certainly won't hurt to know them and frankly if someone is too lazy to learn the notes then they are probably too lazy to do all the other stuff it takes to get good on the guitar.

But again, none of this is compulsory.

I see, I get what you're saying, very Zen, basically there is no real need for anything, that's very profound.

That isn't what I'm saying.

You need to decide what sort of player you want to be.

Some players can do it without knowing much about the mechanics of music or the instrument.

Most people who try and do it this way are hacks but occasionally some work it out and get to be good or even great musicians.

It is much, much easier if you study guitar like you would study anything else- methodically and from first principles.

But it isn't compulsory.

The universe doesn't care whether you learn guitar or how you learn it.

Only YOU matter here- what sort of player do you want to be?

Who are your musical idols?

If you answer this then you can think about whether you need to learn guitar as a craft, or not.

randomhandclaps

GuyBoden said:

octatonic said:

From me, actually it is a yes.

I urge people to learn the notes if they want to be versatile players, want to understand their instrument and want to be able to play all over the neck.

Some people don't want to do that though and 'need' is very much based on what you want to do.

It certainly won't hurt to know them and frankly if someone is too lazy to learn the notes then they are probably too lazy to do all the other stuff it takes to get good on the guitar.

But again, none of this is compulsory.

I see, I get what you're saying, very Zen, basically there is no real need for anything, that's very profound.

Quite clearly that wasn't what was being said though was it?  With any skill the 'need' is completely relative to the requirements of the individual or the task.  If you never plan on jumping in to water then you probably don't 'need' to know how to swim, however it is still a worthy skill to have.

Do you need to know all the notes on the fretboard?  If you want to sit in an orchestra pit in the West End then almost certainly yes.  If you want to play in your own band playing your own compositions then it's not a necessity.  If you are auditioning for Mark E Smith then is probably a major disadvantage.

I put a good deal of work into learning each note and scale position on my guitar, then when I found out how useful it was I learned them on all of my other guitars as well.  B-)

daveww

If you're going to get beyond playing scale patterns to chord tones and arpeggios etc it's certainly going to be very useful

richardhomer

If you are working with other people I'd say it's pretty much essential as it is a straight-forward way of communicating music's structure. With another guitarist or bass player, you can show them the part; with keys or a horn player, you can't.

Some people seem to take pride is their lack of musical knowledge - but as @Octatonic said, this is generally down to laziness.

My musical knowledge is not immense. I'm self-taught but have tried to widen my knowledge base as much as I can. For example, when playing over a blues progression in A, I found playing a B flat over the E chord sounded really good - which was fine but I wanted to understand why, as it is clearly not a note that forms part of the tonic scale.

The answer is that it is the flattened fifth of the 'five' chord, hence, in the context of a blues, it 'should' work. I don't think developing an understanding of these things has any down-side. I certainly don't subscribe to the view that 'feel' players are somehow diminished by knowing more.

Being able to to communicate musical ideas quickly and straight-forwardly with other players is an important skill when it comes to being a rounded player. This is best done by being able to use the 'language' of music....

JAYJO

I find it useful to know the notes. 

At present im learning to play diatonically in 5 different positions, so im finding the nearest chord to each position with as little movement as possible ou of position.(presently just  maj min maj7 min7 the basics) 

Knowing the chord formulas and note locations helps me do this. Infact one helps the other ie Looking for the chord notes helps me learn where the notes are on the fretboard. 

I got fed up learning scales up and down as the notes where overlooked for the shapes and i hardly ever have cause to race up or down a scale. I do though cling to the pentatonic scale (all 5 positions) but i dont see anything wrong with this theres lots of milage in that scale and i use it as a frame for what im doing now (again viewing shapes rather than notes). 

I am self taught and guilty of being proud of the fact in the past but not so much now. I find it inspiring to hear that great players are still having lessons, something i overlooked for many years and not to have had any lessons imo has been a big mistake.

PolarityMan

Side question, when you're playing down tuned do you still call the notes by the names they would be if you were standard tuned? I know I do.

randomhandclaps

  

PolarityMan said:

Side question, when you're playing down tuned do you still call the notes by the names they would be if you were standard tuned? I know I do.

Provided the rest of the band are using the same method then it doesn't really matter.

axisus

HAL9000 said:

Before I knew the names of the notes everything was just so much mindless pentatonic widdling.

That describes my playing pretty well actually.