The FB BJJ / MA Thread

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  • beed84beed84 Frets: 1322
    I've been doing Wing Chun for the past five years – it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life.

    For me any martial art isn’t really about fighting, and if that’s the mindset a practitioner has when studying whatever style they do, then for the most part I’d be inclined to say they’ve got it wrong.

    A martial art is indeed an art form. Although they are designed with combat and self-defence in mind, I personally don’t believe those aspects should be at the forefront. These systems should be honoured and kept pure. In studying and practicing a style it gives rise to a whole host of positives, which are then available to the person practicing it. Respect, discipline, problem solving, good health, and all round good character to name a few. If all a student gets after a class is “I learned such and such a move and it would totally destroy someone” then that shouldn’t be the case. I’m exaggerating for effect but you get the point.

    And who'd want to be in a fight situation let alone fight someone anyway? Even if that were the case, the likelihood of performing a drill or technique as done in class would be pretty slim. You’d hope that after training regularly that the odds would be in your favour and muscle memory would kick in thus preventing you from getting decked. Maybe, just maybe. But with all the chemicals pumping around your body in this fight or flight situation, losing fine motor skills as result, let alone the unpredictability of how the situation will ensue, even if you did perform some wing chun or whatever, it would most probably lack grace and be a far cry from what you see in the movies. The reality is it won't look like martial arts at all. Seriously, if I smelt a whiff of trouble, I would want to get away. If someone pulled out a knife I would give them what they want and definitely do a runner if I could.

    This all sounds pessimistic but it shouldn’t. For me, having a martial art keeps me upright and provides me with a sense of balance. It’s like Sisyphus' daily occurrence of have to push that bloody boulder up the hill for it to only roll back down again. There is a certain pointlessness in training regularly; however, the purpose of doing so provides meaning. Like I said, it keeps me upright in more ways than one.
    "We are all just actors trying to control and manage our public image, we act based on how others might see us" – Erving Goffman
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    Back to reality on Thursday night, rolling with high stripe white belts and blue belts I was tapping like Eddie Van Halen.

    I did hard rolls on Saturday / Monday / Thursday and got another class this morning plus yoga every day this week and felt pretty tired on Thursday night. 

    One more this morning then a glass of wine tonight and a couple of days off. 

     
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 2325
    beed84 said:
    I've been doing Wing Chun for the past five years – it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life.

    For me any martial art isn’t really about fighting, and if that’s the mindset a practitioner has when studying whatever style they do, then for the most part I’d be inclined to say they’ve got it wrong.

    A martial art is indeed an art form. Although they are designed with combat and self-defence in mind, I personally don’t believe those aspects should be at the forefront. These systems should be honoured and kept pure. In studying and practicing a style it gives rise to a whole host of positives, which are then available to the person practicing it. Respect, discipline, problem solving, good health, and all round good character to name a few. If all a student gets after a class is “I learned such and such a move and it would totally destroy someone” then that shouldn’t be the case. I’m exaggerating for effect but you get the point.

    And who'd want to be in a fight situation let alone fight someone anyway? Even if that were the case, the likelihood of performing a drill or technique as done in class would be pretty slim. You’d hope that after training regularly that the odds would be in your favour and muscle memory would kick in thus preventing you from getting decked. Maybe, just maybe. But with all the chemicals pumping around your body in this fight or flight situation, losing fine motor skills as result, let alone the unpredictability of how the situation will ensue, even if you did perform some wing chun or whatever, it would most probably lack grace and be a far cry from what you see in the movies. The reality is it won't look like martial arts at all. Seriously, if I smelt a whiff of trouble, I would want to get away. If someone pulled out a knife I would give them what they want and definitely do a runner if I could.

    This all sounds pessimistic but it shouldn’t. For me, having a martial art keeps me upright and provides me with a sense of balance. It’s like Sisyphus' daily occurrence of have to push that bloody boulder up the hill for it to only roll back down again. There is a certain pointlessness in training regularly; however, the purpose of doing so provides meaning. Like I said, it keeps me upright in more ways than one.
    The guy who taught me ju jitsu was 8th dan and trained all day every day. He said one of the few times he ever used it a few guys outside a club started on him, he blocked the first punch and took the guy out with a.straight punch breaking every bone in his hand in the process. 
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  • MyrandaMyranda Frets: 2767
    I got BJJ... Yay me I guess.

    munckee said:
    I did old school japanese ju jitsu for a number of years and used to go to various camps where you could try different martial arts, kendo and bushido were particularly painful I seem to remember.  I did aikido once which involoved being thrown around and the instructor insisted on no mats as that would make sure you landed properly - he was right to be fair.
    I'd have thought that it would also make you a little less likely to really throw a partner for fear of actually damage them, so you wind up training muscle memory to be less than fully aggressive... at least to some extent. Aikido is also a good example of partners throwing themselves into throws... so some wont get techniques perfectly right - a resistant opponent might not want to be thrown and may prove harder to move than expected.

    That said, as someone who's rotator cuff was torn by a bad kimura and lots of brute force (during a non-competitive training session) not all techniques need to be perfect. 

    beed84 said:
    I've been doing Wing Chun for the past five years – it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life.

    For me any martial art isn’t really about fighting, and if that’s the mindset a practitioner has when studying whatever style they do, then for the most part I’d be inclined to say they’ve got it wrong.

    A martial art is indeed an art form. Although they are designed with combat and self-defence in mind, I personally don’t believe those aspects should be at the forefront. These systems should be honoured and kept pure. In studying and practicing a style it gives rise to a whole host of positives, which are then available to the person practicing it. Respect, discipline, problem solving, good health, and all round good character to name a few. If all a student gets after a class is “I learned such and such a move and it would totally destroy someone” then that shouldn’t be the case. I’m exaggerating for effect but you get the point.

    And who'd want to be in a fight situation let alone fight someone anyway? Even if that were the case, the likelihood of performing a drill or technique as done in class would be pretty slim. You’d hope that after training regularly that the odds would be in your favour and muscle memory would kick in thus preventing you from getting decked. Maybe, just maybe. But with all the chemicals pumping around your body in this fight or flight situation, losing fine motor skills as result, let alone the unpredictability of how the situation will ensue, even if you did perform some wing chun or whatever, it would most probably lack grace and be a far cry from what you see in the movies. The reality is it won't look like martial arts at all. Seriously, if I smelt a whiff of trouble, I would want to get away. If someone pulled out a knife I would give them what they want and definitely do a runner if I could.

    This all sounds pessimistic but it shouldn’t. For me, having a martial art keeps me upright and provides me with a sense of balance. It’s like Sisyphus' daily occurrence of have to push that bloody boulder up the hill for it to only roll back down again. There is a certain pointlessness in training regularly; however, the purpose of doing so provides meaning. Like I said, it keeps me upright in more ways than one.
    You know the system you're doing has been massively changed at least twice - Ip Man scrapped all the stuff seen as useless or pretty non-sense (It was after all a traditional Chinese martial art complete with long-form arm movements), then each and every one of his students got a different version that they then teach. That's assuming none else changed it after either a woman or a whole travelling circus invented the martial art

    Keeping systems "pure" seems an unlikely attitude for a Wing Chun practitioner - just ask the people who participated in the so called "Wing Chun Wars" fights and arguments over what was proper wing chun, with organisations slating each other: We're real, everything else is crap just to steal your money... (which is entirely Ip Man's fault for teaching everyone different things).

    This is not to have a go... most martial arts have changed and evolved - and that's a good thing. 

    As for the paragraph 4 question. No one wants to get into a proper fight the point of learning a martial art is so that if it happens you're slightly less likely to be dead/maimed/injured than if you didn't learn. As for fine motor skills, you're not threading needles you're hitting someone in the face/groin/solar plexus with a fist/elbow/knee... practice enough and muscle memory does do what it's supposed to. No need for grace, just make the other person's nose look like a Jackson Pollock painting - ideally more than once. But you're right, the best option is still to flee, and in the case of knives, give them what they want... but sometimes there isn't the option, so train so hard that in the no-option scenario you get to go home in as few pieces as possible and they go in as many pieces as possible. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    edited October 2018
    I’m not one to pick apart any martial arts as they all have something going for them but the reason I chose BJJ is because there are no katas(sp?), no practiced movements. We drill a technique so as to get the technique perfect in training so when it comes to having to use it in a match or a fight it’s applied as best you can in the given situation. No rehearsed moves strung together in a fashion that’ll be of no use. 
    my school also does fight sims (one partner has gloves on the other a gum shield) and you quickly learn the difference between sports jiu jitsu and self defence. 
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    I suspect the percentage of people who get into martial arts because they want to be able to protect themselves is pretty high. It certainly is what got me thinking about getting back into combat sports, after boxing in my teens and 20s, - having recently being physically threatened by someone for the first time in years.  

    However, I suspect most of those people won't stick with it. Personally, it's developed into more of a passion / hobby and the threat turned out to be idle.

    When I started BJJ my professor told me he has 5 university lecturers training under him. He said "the meatheads don't stick at it". 
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    Trying and failing to find a suitable tape to tape my fingers up for BJJ. What does anyone recommend?
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  • MyrandaMyranda Frets: 2767
    Fuengi said:
    Trying and failing to find a suitable tape to tape my fingers up for BJJ. What does anyone recommend?
    Have you tried googling for "finger tape" ?
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  • I did Tang Soo Do for about 8 years (like a more traditional version of Tae Kwan Do) and was approaching my second Dan when I gave it up and tried some ju jitsu classes, then went to Krav.  Eventually some issues with my back prompted me to stop training and now I just visit the gym so I can pace myself and have less risk of injury. Krav was, in my opinion, the most likely to be beneficial in a real situation, but at my age now (approaching 50) I've opted for a less demanding form of exercise. Krav can be pretty brutal.
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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 121
    I did some martial arts when I was younger because I wanted to be able to defend myself.

    But when I came to savate in my late 20s, I had no desire to learn something to make me bad ass, or to give me better self-defence skills. I wanted to do something that was fun and difficult. I'd also done other nominally combat sports -- like fencing -- that have no claims to self-defence skills, and enjoyed the technique and competitive side of it.

    As it happens, training hard in a martial art that does a lot of sparring (and exactly no kata or forms), and which has a pretty small technique set -- it's more like boxing (western or Thai) than it's like karate or kung fu -- probably had some decent carry over into basic self defence. If nothing else, I got used to being hit, and kicking properly with shoes on (lots of low kicking techniques).

    But I'd never recommend it to someone looking to learn self-defence. That's just not, normally, what those classes are set up to teach.
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    Fuengi said:
    Trying and failing to find a suitable tape to tape my fingers up for BJJ. What does anyone recommend?
    Just get zinc oxide tape. Amazon do packs for not much money. Get 1.25 for fingers and 2.5 for thumbs and toes etc. If you have a bad wrist 5cm is good for that. 
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    Holy crap, I get a whack on the head tonight at BJJ. I was rolling in the corner of the mat, just gripping for an armbar and the pair next to us flew over & I got a heel full pelt on the forehead, just over my eye. Instant swelling.

    I think not seeing it coming made it much worse. Hurt like flip. Don't think I'm concussed! 
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 2325
    Fuengi said:
    Holy crap, I get a whack on the head tonight at BJJ. I was rolling in the corner of the mat, just gripping for an armbar and the pair next to us flew over & I got a heel full pelt on the forehead, just over my eye. Instant swelling.

    I think not seeing it coming made it much worse. Hurt like flip. Don't think I'm concussed! 
    With the greatest of sympathy mate you know we need swelling pics!
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    munckee said:
    Fuengi said:
    Holy crap, I get a whack on the head tonight at BJJ. I was rolling in the corner of the mat, just gripping for an armbar and the pair next to us flew over & I got a heel full pelt on the forehead, just over my eye. Instant swelling.

    I think not seeing it coming made it much worse. Hurt like flip. Don't think I'm concussed! 
    With the greatest of sympathy mate you know we need swelling pics!
    It's surprisingly difficult to take a photo of your own forehead that don't look freakishly strange! 

    I've got a nice red mark where it landed and although the swelling has reduced it's like a solid half egg. 

    That's the best I can do! 

    Going for the brush down fringe today.
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  • Hope you're ok. 
    Showing up to work with random injuries is part & parcel of doing what MrsLostSon calls "stupid sports". I rarely get visible bruises, but it always seems to be before things I need to look presentable for! 

    I started a new job not that long ago & had my 6 month review with my manager, his boss & several stakeholders. I turned up with an amazing black eye... Which no one mentioned until 30mins in when the most senior person there suddenly burst out
    "OK. ENOUGH. When the hell is someone going to tell me what happened to your face?!"

    MrsLostSon has banned me from training a week before any family function after I was best man at my brother's wedding with a shiner. 

    Worst is broken ribs- no visible damage & phenomenal pain ALL THE TIME! 


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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    Hope you're ok. 
    Showing up to work with random injuries is part & parcel of doing what MrsLostSon calls "stupid sports". I rarely get visible bruises, but it always seems to be before things I need to look presentable for! 

    I started a new job not that long ago & had my 6 month review with my manager, his boss & several stakeholders. I turned up with an amazing black eye... Which no one mentioned until 30mins in when the most senior person there suddenly burst out
    "OK. ENOUGH. When the hell is someone going to tell me what happened to your face?!"

    MrsLostSon has banned me from training a week before any family function after I was best man at my brother's wedding with a shiner. 

    Worst is broken ribs- no visible damage & phenomenal pain ALL THE TIME! 


    Thanks, I'm fine although it was quite a shock when it happened.

    Fortunately, I work for myself. Have a couple of important client meetings on Monday so hopefully it's gone or significantly reduced by then. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    Well currently have my dominant hand in a plaster cast. Imagine trying to give stern technical advice to the higher ups whilst also giving a constant thumbs up. 

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  • CHRISB50CHRISB50 Frets: 1966
    Hope you're ok. 
    Showing up to work with random injuries is part & parcel of doing what MrsLostSon calls "stupid sports". I rarely get visible bruises, but it always seems to be before things I need to look presentable for! 

    I started a new job not that long ago & had my 6 month review with my manager, his boss & several stakeholders. I turned up with an amazing black eye... Which no one mentioned until 30mins in when the most senior person there suddenly burst out
    "OK. ENOUGH. When the hell is someone going to tell me what happened to your face?!"

    MrsLostSon has banned me from training a week before any family function after I was best man at my brother's wedding with a shiner. 

    Worst is broken ribs- no visible damage & phenomenal pain ALL THE TIME! 


    Ah, broken ribs! 

    You dont believe that laying down or breathing can hurt, until you’ve experienced it. 

    I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin

    But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to

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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    Yeah broken ribs during hay fever season is not nice. 
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    The Belt System:

    I've been rolling a lot recently and doing plenty of yoga and it's definitely starting to pay off.

    Last night I rolled with a two stripe white belt and dominated him. Then a one stripe WB and tapped him out with an armbar from mount. Then a no stripe WB who I had in a horrible mount position but timed out a short round before going for the finish. 

    Afterwards I should have been delighted with my progress but instead I was just wondering why I wasn't getting my first stripe. I know the prof was monitoring me because he asked me to go through a couple of drills, and told me to take a round off from sparring - I was thinking he was going to roll with me as a test. But didn't.

    If the belt promotion system wasn't a thing I'd have really enjoyed it more, but on the other side I'm more determined to keep progressing. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    edited October 2018
    Fuengi said:
    The Belt System:

    I've been rolling a lot recently and doing plenty of yoga and it's definitely starting to pay off.

    Last night I rolled with a two stripe white belt and dominated him. Then a one stripe WB and tapped him out with an armbar from mount. Then a no stripe WB who I had in a horrible mount position but timed out a short round before going for the finish. 

    Afterwards I should have been delighted with my progress but instead I was just wondering why I wasn't getting my first stripe. I know the prof was monitoring me because he asked me to go through a couple of drills, and told me to take a round off from sparring - I was thinking he was going to roll with me as a test. But didn't.

    If the belt promotion system wasn't a thing I'd have really enjoyed it more, but on the other side I'm more determined to keep progressing. 
    There’s no stripe on my WB either but it’ll come. Don’t chase the belt. Enjoy it for what it is. 
    Ive seen WB’s beat BLues in timed matches. Ruined the Blues night when he should have took it as a lesson to improve. He wasted time on his ego by refusing to pull guard and going for the take down, he didn’t know the WB was a brown in Judo. 

    Leave the ego  at the door. 
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  • grungebob said:
    Fuengi said:
    The Belt System:

    I've been rolling a lot recently and doing plenty of yoga and it's definitely starting to pay off.

    Last night I rolled with a two stripe white belt and dominated him. Then a one stripe WB and tapped him out with an armbar from mount. Then a no stripe WB who I had in a horrible mount position but timed out a short round before going for the finish. 

    Afterwards I should have been delighted with my progress but instead I was just wondering why I wasn't getting my first stripe. I know the prof was monitoring me because he asked me to go through a couple of drills, and told me to take a round off from sparring - I was thinking he was going to roll with me as a test. But didn't.

    If the belt promotion system wasn't a thing I'd have really enjoyed it more, but on the other side I'm more determined to keep progressing. 
    There’s no stripe on my WB either but it’ll come. Don’t chase the belt. Enjoy it for what it is. 
    Ive seen WB’s beat BLues in timed matches. Ruined the Blues night when he should have took it as a lesson to improve. He wasted time on his ego by refusing to pull guard and going for the take down, he didn’t know the WB was a brown in Judo. 

    Leave the ego  at the door. 
    I've been doing no-gi (think I've donned the pyjamas twice in 7years). I've no idea what belt I am & am not really worried about it. 
    I just roll with folk & see what happens. I'm more concerned with my own performance. I know I can tap most blue belts & survive with purples, but as no one wears a belt there's no indication of how good someone is till you start. 

    The lack of ambition is a conscious thing on my part- I refuse to do competitions too despite pressure/encouragment from coaches. I played other sports to a high level & was determined that BJJ would just be for fun & fitness. If I compete I'll get competitive & lose some of the fun. 

    Trust your instructor. Your time WILL come. 
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  • MyrandaMyranda Frets: 2767
    grungebob said:
    Fuengi said:
    The Belt System:

    I've been rolling a lot recently and doing plenty of yoga and it's definitely starting to pay off.

    Last night I rolled with a two stripe white belt and dominated him. Then a one stripe WB and tapped him out with an armbar from mount. Then a no stripe WB who I had in a horrible mount position but timed out a short round before going for the finish. 

    Afterwards I should have been delighted with my progress but instead I was just wondering why I wasn't getting my first stripe. I know the prof was monitoring me because he asked me to go through a couple of drills, and told me to take a round off from sparring - I was thinking he was going to roll with me as a test. But didn't.

    If the belt promotion system wasn't a thing I'd have really enjoyed it more, but on the other side I'm more determined to keep progressing. 
    There’s no stripe on my WB either but it’ll come. Don’t chase the belt. Enjoy it for what it is. 
    Ive seen WB’s beat BLues in timed matches. Ruined the Blues night when he should have took it as a lesson to improve. He wasted time on his ego by refusing to pull guard and going for the take down, he didn’t know the WB was a brown in Judo. 

    Leave the ego  at the door. 
    Our school only uses stripes of red on a black belt... No stripes on any other belt, you just go from white to blue when you're consistently owning the white belts and bring a challenge to the blues... 
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    So, this happened tonight;

    2 stripes on my white belt. https://imgur.com/gallery/unB7FBD

    It feels like a real reward for the effort I've been putting in. Delighted, but just want to keep going... 
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  • Fuengi said:
    So, this happened tonight;

    2 stripes on my white belt. https://imgur.com/gallery/unB7FBD

    It feels like a real reward for the effort I've been putting in. Delighted, but just want to keep going... 
    Congratulations! Your coach was obviously watching you the other night. Maybe he'd just forgotten his tape! 


    I had an interesting session yesterday. I tapped everyone I rolled with, including two HUGE & experienced guys- 6'5" 115+kg!! That's 40kg more than me. but I left unhappy with my performance. I'd won by using my "go to" moves & not been able to incorporate the lesson into my rolling. I just felt frustrated. 
    Weird. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    @fuengi wow congratulations dude, I bet he just forgot his tape the other night. 
    Keep it up. 
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 1198
    @stimpsonslostson wow sounds like you smashed everyone. I agree that it’s always nice to use that nights lesson in a roll but often times everyone’s so in tune with it that their defence is on point.  I’m guessing you used your go to moves as you have the technique down and therefore use less effort in applying them, isn’t that what we’re all trying to achieve, the ability to submit our opponents with the least amount of effort as possible?

    i wouldn’t worry about not being able to use other techniques, pretty soon the class will recognise your setup and this will force you to develop better on newer moves, it’s a viscous cycle really as the moment they adapt to your new move you can revert to the old one ;)
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    Fuengi said:
    So, this happened tonight;

    2 stripes on my white belt. https://imgur.com/gallery/unB7FBD

    It feels like a real reward for the effort I've been putting in. Delighted, but just want to keep going... 
    Congratulations! Your coach was obviously watching you the other night. Maybe he'd just forgotten his tape! 


    I had an interesting session yesterday. I tapped everyone I rolled with, including two HUGE & experienced guys- 6'5" 115+kg!! That's 40kg more than me. but I left unhappy with my performance. I'd won by using my "go to" moves & not been able to incorporate the lesson into my rolling. I just felt frustrated. 
    Weird. 
    I find that lots of the guys go to the lesson techniques straight away in rolling, but it seldom works because they are only used to drilling it. If a technique resonates with me I try to refine it and use it for real over the next week or two and it becomes integrated in my game. I wouldn't expect to hit it straight away.

    Well done on tapping out a guy that heavy. I'm about the same weight as you and I just try not to get crushed by those big guys. They are so strong they can just muscle out of most positions against me, but I see the more experienced guys control them..
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 781
    grungebob said:
    @fuengi wow congratulations dude, I bet he just forgot his tape the other night. 
    Keep it up. 
    Thank you. I think he wanted to really assess me over a couple of nights before awarding two stripes. He rolled with me last night to get a feel for my movement as well as exposing some of my weaknesses (protect the neck!!). 

    Another WB also got two stripes, we have been a close match for each other for a while so that felt great. 
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  • CHRISB50 said:

    I started training BJJ in 2002 with Wilson Jr who runs the UK arm of Carlson Gracie Academy. In those days it was quite hard to find instructors / classes, so I could only train once a week, and had to drive quite a way to get to classes, which were on a Friday night. I last about 6 months and jacked it in.


    I restarted a few years later with Ricardo Da Silva when he was still under Roger Brooking (Alliance) in Epsom, which became the MMA team Nova Forca. This time work took over and I missed too many classes to warrant paying the up front monthly fee.


    I supplemented the training with spending about 5-6 hours on a Saturday in a gym space in Croydon with one of my school mates who also did BJJ. We'd run through the stuff we learned in the week and spar from certain positions. My friend moved to the US, and the gym in Croydon shut unfortunately.


    I've now got a fair bit of free time on  my hands and I'm started to get bored of just lifting weights, so I am looking to restart after a hefty old lay off.


    My gi's are down from the loft and washed. I just need to pull my finger out.


    My nearest academy is Jiu Jitsu Brotherhood run by Nicolas Gregoriades and his students, so I am gong to give them a try. Will report back here once I have.

    I go to this club Chris, it would be great to see you down there. Good bunch of guys and gals.
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