Helix Friedman v real Friedman, same IR - can you tell which is which? Clip within

RandomGecko

So I've been running my Helix 4CM with my Friendman Runt, running some of the preamps through the FX return as well as using the Friedman straight up. Very versatile setup.

Decided today to compare the BE100 model (Placater) in the Helix to the BE channel on the Runt, with very interesting results. Basically what prompted this was comparing the Helix to the AX8 (as I posted yesterday, I think the Helix is the equal of the AX8, after years of thinking that the AX8 was far superior)

Anyway, I set it up 4CM with my amp and ran them both through the same IR, an Ownhammer 4x12 with a Greenback, mic'd with an SM57. In the clip, I A/B between them, using a looper to play the same clip through both the Runt preamp and Helix model of the BE.

Love to hear what people think.

https://soundcloud.com/adam-bourne-1 /be-v-helix/s-8Pgkm

Roland

I’d love to listen, but there’s no Soundcloud link, just the logo.

RandomGecko

Paste the link and remove the space!

relic245

Sound the same to me.... 

TTBZ

Yep sounds the same to me too!

Pablocrackers

Sounds great but try and compare it without using the friedman power amp section for a true comparison the power amp makes up a fair bit of the friedman tone as well and how do you feel about the dynamics are they equal does it feel the same under the fingers to play? Ta 

NelsonP

I listened on the crappy internal speaker on my phone. On that the second one sounded better.

Need to listen on a proper monitor.

MentalSharps

They're very similar, only a slight difference between them. I'm not familiar with what a Friedman should sound like, or what Helix sounds like, so I can't say which is which.

It's probably just personal taste, or crappy ears, but neither sounds like what I would have guessed a Friedman tube amp would sound like, there's something that feels missing to me, like a lack of fullness. How did you dial them in, which one did you match to the other?

The second riff (the one that is cut short) stands out as sounding different to me than all the others.

p90fool

I'm just getting some random acoustic song on SoundCloud. 

digitalscream

p90fool said:

I'm just getting some random acoustic song on SoundCloud. 

See if this works:

http://soundcloud.com/adam-bourne-1/be-v-helix/s-8Pgkm

For what it's worth...the second one is slightly more compressed, but I can only tell that from looking at the waveforms. On my Tannoy Reveal monitors, I couldn't tell the difference at all.

I'd hazard a guess that the second clip in each is the Helix on that basis, but frankly...they both sound equally great.

ICBM

The first one in each pair sounds noticeably better to me - it's fuller and more dynamic. It becomes more obvious if you listen at higher volume.

Close enough that I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in a mix though, and I'm still not certain which is which.

Dominic

very hard to tell but I think the second is Helix

p90fool

Very close, but I slightly preferred the second one. I think running through the same IR is a great leveller tbh - you'd be hard pushed to get such close results comparing a full guitar rig with a Helix/FRFR setup, but it's impressive nonetheless. 

RandomGecko

ICBM said:

The first one in each pair sounds noticeably better to me - it's fuller and more dynamic. It becomes more obvious if you listen at higher volume.

Close enough that I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in a mix though, and I'm still not certain which is which.

Very fair, however, they switch in order...

ICBM

RandomGecko said:

Very fair, however, they switch in order...

Well that does confuse things! I listened again and I still think the first take in each pair sounds better. The second clip has the biggest difference I think. So that presumably means there is really no practical difference at all.

MentalSharps

RandomGecko said:

ICBM said:

The first one in each pair sounds noticeably better to me - it's fuller and more dynamic. It becomes more obvious if you listen at higher volume.

Close enough that I doubt you would be able to tell the difference in a mix though, and I'm still not certain which is which.

Very fair, however, they switch in order...

Do they switch in order throughout? I still feel that only the 2nd clip is noticeably different and lacking in mids, and the rest all sound too close to notice differences.

My guess is: Friedman / Helix / Helix / Friedman / Helix / Friedman, based on a tiny difference in attack that I am probably imagining hearing after listening to it 10 times straight

I'm not familiar with Helix or know what 4CM is - Is the Runt's power section being used in both examples, or neither because it comes back to the Helix for power amp modelling and then to the IR?

octatonic

Which Runt- 20 or 50?

Tenebrous

I prefer first/first/second (although the last one is very marginal). No idea which is the Helix & which is the amp - I'm just basing it one what I prefer tonally.

grungebob

No idea but in every occurrence I prefer the second sample 

MentalSharps

Any update on this @RandomGecko ? Would be interested to know the actual results for curiosity sake.