HiFi help appreciated

AllthegearNoidea

AllthegearNoidea said:

strumjoughlamps said:

AllthegearNoidea said:

Sort of result

Booming has stopped after doing what is now obvious. 

Its level

Arm is set up

still need to try a decent cable but the detail from the Carbon is nowhere near the CD. 

Something is wrong IMO as I have a ProJect Carbon with 2M blue cartridge and Acrylic platter and it knocks socks off of CD, especially cymbals and soundstage. 

I must admit the cable is ancient. Will order new today

Stock cartridge on mine as is the platter. 

Gagaryn

lasermonkey said:

I very much doubt I that there is anything wrong with your gear. On many of my records I have noticed that there's often considerably more bass content than on the CD. 

What's interesting is that these albums are almost always pre-2000 and I think that it's down to one thing: mastering. Back then, mastering engineers had lifetimes of experience in mastering on that format, whereas CD was still relatively new. It only really occurred to me when I bought both the CD and vinyl copies of a recently released album and was taken aback when the vinyl sounded significantly worse than the CD, which is counter to what experience had taught me.

I guess that in the time when vinyl almost died a death, the experience of mastering for that format went with it, whereas mastering for digital finally caught up to the point where vinyl had been. 

That said, it's always a good idea to make sure your tracking weight is set up properly!

I agree with this, old records often sounds great because the master discs were well prepared - those of a certain vintage will remember fondly George Pecham's "Porky Prime Cuts!"

I've bought some new albums on vinyl which sounds shite - so shite I was convince there was a problem with my system - Father John Misty "Pure Comedy" is the worst. The mp3 downloads sound fine but the vinyl is poor.

robgilmo

viz said:

Get a cheap digital scale for jewelry from ebay - they’re like £10 - and a small spirit level; check everything is level; check tracking weight - use a deck of cards to make sure you’re checking it at the same height as the record because it can be 30% out if you’re too high or low; you can check and compare the sound from different VTA by playing the record on thicker mats or even on top of another record; make sure the side tracking force is adjusted properly if your tonearm has that adjustment setting. So far that costs you 20 quid max.

Then consider isolation. Use proper isolating feet; put it on a firm table, or install a wall shelf. 

Next consider the cartridge and phono preamp. What cartridge are you using? I’ve been upgrading and upgrading over the years and the sound has got sweeter and sweeter. Denon do an amazing mc cart called the 103 or even better the 103R - if your phono amp can accommodate MC carts then that’s an amazing “cheap” upgrade. 

Why isolate it from a wall shelf? You want to be coupling it to a wall shelf, thats the point of a wall shelf. It adds mass to the TT plinth. In most circumstances surely its better to add mass to a plinth, especially seeing as the deck isnt one of the suspended types? it would be akin to isolating it from a marble base or concrete floor. Also, from memory (please correct me if I am wrong?) too much bass is to small a VTA, lifting the platter will only make it worse, its the arm that needs lifting? 

robgilmo

AllthegearNoidea said:

Sort of result

Booming has stopped after doing what is now obvious. 

Its level

Arm is set up

still need to try a decent cable but the detail from the Carbon is nowhere near the CD. 

First off , a set up disc will help, this will allow you to make small adjustments to the set up to get it perfect.
Then, a reference disc, Brother's In Arms, Love over Gold, Breakfast In America is good, there are loads of very well recorded vinyl to choose from, have a good old Google, or people here can make suggestions.The difference between a good recorded vinyl and a bad one is night and day, also, get a good copy, first pressing, mint , look on discogs as eBay is hit and miss at the best of times. You want something you enjoy and can mentally pull apart while you listen to it. It might cost a few quid but its a reference that you will return to if for example changing a cartridge, dont play it too much as it will wear out and bang goes your reference material.

I haven't bothered with any of this stuff for years, my Logic DM101 sits on a chest of drawers now and my NS-670's are on adjacent walls, I just listen to the music these days. 

Gagaryn

robgilmo said:

viz said:

Get a cheap digital scale for jewelry from ebay - they’re like £10 - and a small spirit level; check everything is level; check tracking weight - use a deck of cards to make sure you’re checking it at the same height as the record because it can be 30% out if you’re too high or low; you can check and compare the sound from different VTA by playing the record on thicker mats or even on top of another record; make sure the side tracking force is adjusted properly if your tonearm has that adjustment setting. So far that costs you 20 quid max.

Then consider isolation. Use proper isolating feet; put it on a firm table, or install a wall shelf. 

Next consider the cartridge and phono preamp. What cartridge are you using? I’ve been upgrading and upgrading over the years and the sound has got sweeter and sweeter. Denon do an amazing mc cart called the 103 or even better the 103R - if your phono amp can accommodate MC carts then that’s an amazing “cheap” upgrade. 

Why isolate it from a wall shelf? You want to be coupling it to a wall shelf, thats the point of a wall shelf. It adds mass to the TT plinth. In most circumstances surely its better to add mass to a plinth, especially seeing as the deck isnt one of the suspended types? it would be akin to isolating it from a marble base or concrete floor. Also, from memory (please correct me if I am wrong?) too much bass is to small a VTA, lifting the platter will only make it worse, its the arm that needs lifting? 

Yup, lower arm relative to record normally emphasises bass - raising the arm relative to the record normally results in a thinner sound.

viz

robgilmo said:

viz said:

Get a cheap digital scale for jewelry from ebay - they’re like £10 - and a small spirit level; check everything is level; check tracking weight - use a deck of cards to make sure you’re checking it at the same height as the record because it can be 30% out if you’re too high or low; you can check and compare the sound from different VTA by playing the record on thicker mats or even on top of another record; make sure the side tracking force is adjusted properly if your tonearm has that adjustment setting. So far that costs you 20 quid max.

Then consider isolation. Use proper isolating feet; put it on a firm table, or install a wall shelf. 

Next consider the cartridge and phono preamp. What cartridge are you using? I’ve been upgrading and upgrading over the years and the sound has got sweeter and sweeter. Denon do an amazing mc cart called the 103 or even better the 103R - if your phono amp can accommodate MC carts then that’s an amazing “cheap” upgrade. 

Why isolate it from a wall shelf? You want to be coupling it to a wall shelf, thats the point of a wall shelf. It adds mass to the TT plinth. In most circumstances surely its better to add mass to a plinth, especially seeing as the deck isnt one of the suspended types? it would be akin to isolating it from a marble base or concrete floor. Also, from memory (please correct me if I am wrong?) too much bass is to small a VTA, lifting the platter will only make it worse, its the arm that needs lifting? 

I meant isolate it from a table, or get it on a wall shelf. Both have the effect of isolating it from the speakers. 

VTA - I just meant you can try out different angles without having to fiddle about with the tonearm mount. 

Rocker

Wall mounted shelf for the TT. The disk (place a record on the platter) must be absolutely level, plus or minus nothing.  I found that the tracking weight is best a whisker below the max suggested weight, for example 1.8 to 2.0 grams, around 1.95 grams. I am assuming that your system is well setup, speakers etc. Do not spend any money until you know that one of your components is faulty or not up to the job. Setup. Setup. Setup. It is all about setup. You have good kit, don't go chasing your tail by buying new components. 

Fretwired

AllthegearNoidea said:

I’m experiencing a high level of bass boom when listening to vinyl against the same album on cd. 

The issue is turntable/cartridge ... it's not amp or speakers. I had a similar issue with a Rega deck into a Mission Cyrus amp and power amp. Turned out the cartridge was faulty. Changed it and set up the turntable and everything sounded great again.

Avoid active speakers like the plague.

TheMarlin

These are great cartridges, if you can find a light used one cheap, grab it.  They go for £80-150 used.  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232959246535

I’d pop a better cartridge on it, and get a better quality step up device.  Graham Slee step up MM/MC Phono stages are excellent value for money https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192682713948

viz

TheMarlin said:

These are great cartridges, if you can find a light used one cheap, grab it.  They go for £80-150 used.  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232959246535

I’d pop a better cartridge on it, and get a better quality step up device.  Graham Slee step up MM/MC Phono stages are excellent value for money https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192682713948

Both great products - just beware, that cartridge is MC, whereas the phono stage is MM only. You’ll need a MM/MC phono stage for the Denon DL103. 

Gagaryn

TheMarlin said:

These are great cartridges, if you can find a light used one cheap, grab it.  They go for £80-150 used.  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232959246535

I’d pop a better cartridge on it, and get a better quality step up device.  Graham Slee step up MM/MC Phono stages are excellent value for money https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192682713948

Personally I wouldn't buy a used cartridge without factoring in buying a new stylus. People will claim light use but the reality could be very different. Although there will be exceptions, most people only get round to upgrading a cartridge once they are conscious that they are going to need to replace the stylus soon.

Anyone want to buy a Ortofon 2M Blue - light use only (for three years)? :-)

TheMarlin

Depends on your budget and the cartridge. Some are pretty bullet proof   If it’s a fixed stylus, such as on a Lyra, then certainly be wary. A rebuild will cost big money. 
Be careful of cartridges popular with DJ’s, they will have had a hard life.  
At the budget end, there are some good sounding cartridges to be had new cheap, such as the Audio Technica AT95e which can be had new for £35 on Amazon. I put one on my nephews turntable when it arrived with a damaged stylus. Sounded great.  Not quite as detailed at some of the corkage I normally sniff, but highly listenable.  A very enjoyable listen. 

Axe_meister

TheMarlin said:

Depends on your budget and the cartridge. Some are pretty bullet proof   If it’s a fixed stylus, such as on a Lyra, then certainly be wary. A rebuild will cost big money. 
Be careful of cartridges popular with DJ’s, they will have had a hard life.  
At the budget end, there are some good sounding cartridges to be had new cheap, such as the Audio Technica AT95e which can be had new for £35 on Amazon. I put one on my nephews turntable when it arrived with a damaged stylus. Sounded great.  Not quite as detailed at some of the corkage I normally sniff, but highly listenable.  A very enjoyable listen. 

I have one of these on my LP12. Really good for the price. Alas my old Shure MC with fixed stylus broke. £300 rebuild cost.

strumjoughlamps

Gagaryn said:

TheMarlin said:

These are great cartridges, if you can find a light used one cheap, grab it.  They go for £80-150 used.  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232959246535

I’d pop a better cartridge on it, and get a better quality step up device.  Graham Slee step up MM/MC Phono stages are excellent value for money https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192682713948

Personally I wouldn't buy a used cartridge without factoring in buying a new stylus. People will claim light use but the reality could be very different. Although there will be exceptions, most people only get round to upgrading a cartridge once they are conscious that they are going to need to replace the stylus soon.

Anyone want to buy a Ortofon 2M Blue - light use only (for three years)? :-)

On the flip side I have a 2M Red which from seen 40-50 hrs use from new before I upgraded to the Blue.. so there is possible low use bargains out there. 

Gagaryn

strumjoughlamps said:

Gagaryn said:

TheMarlin said:

These are great cartridges, if you can find a light used one cheap, grab it.  They go for £80-150 used.  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232959246535

I’d pop a better cartridge on it, and get a better quality step up device.  Graham Slee step up MM/MC Phono stages are excellent value for money https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192682713948

Personally I wouldn't buy a used cartridge without factoring in buying a new stylus. People will claim light use but the reality could be very different. Although there will be exceptions, most people only get round to upgrading a cartridge once they are conscious that they are going to need to replace the stylus soon.

Anyone want to buy a Ortofon 2M Blue - light use only (for three years)? :-)

On the flip side I have a 2M Red which from seen 40-50 hrs use from new before I upgraded to the Blue.. so there is possible low use bargains out there. 

Yup, I noted there will be exceptions, but in general...


Anyway, isn't the difference between the blue and the red only the stylus? They share the same body I think so you coul dhave just bought a blue stylus?

strumjoughlamps

Gagaryn said:

strumjoughlamps said:

Gagaryn said:

TheMarlin said:

These are great cartridges, if you can find a light used one cheap, grab it.  They go for £80-150 used.  
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F232959246535

I’d pop a better cartridge on it, and get a better quality step up device.  Graham Slee step up MM/MC Phono stages are excellent value for money https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192682713948

Personally I wouldn't buy a used cartridge without factoring in buying a new stylus. People will claim light use but the reality could be very different. Although there will be exceptions, most people only get round to upgrading a cartridge once they are conscious that they are going to need to replace the stylus soon.

Anyone want to buy a Ortofon 2M Blue - light use only (for three years)? :-)

On the flip side I have a 2M Red which from seen 40-50 hrs use from new before I upgraded to the Blue.. so there is possible low use bargains out there. 

Yup, I noted there will be exceptions, but in general...


Anyway, isn't the difference between the blue and the red only the stylus? They share the same body I think so you coul dhave just bought a blue stylus?

I did just buy the stylus. 

TheMarlin

Actually, I have a spare Red somewhere...

blobb

For the budget conscious amongst us, Audio Technica have recently bought out the AT95ex, which is an AT95e with an improved eliptical stylus. I've been using the 95e for ages as the best bang per buck, the ex is better.

robgilmo

I had an AT95E for a while, I found it very underwhelming, I dont know why people rave on about them, its a cheap cartridge and it sounds like one. Spend another 20 quid or more and you will get something much much better.

AllthegearNoidea

System is now setup, cables replaced (big difference)

im going to demo my gear against a couple of different amps tomorrow or Friday