Loop/switchers. Worth it?

s_andrews

So, those that have loop/switcher pedals, how do you find them?

I'm really tempted by one, however I'm not sure how much I'd gain. I currently use a few pedals in front of my amp, and a few in the FX loop. As such, I'm looking at units like the https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_fxl8_pro.htm and it's Joyo brother, which have more than one "loop" within the unit.

My current set up is Guitar -> (Occasionally Wah) -> TS mini -> Phaser -> Tuner -> Amp FX Loop Send -> Boost -> Chorus -> Delay -> Verb -> FX loop return.

So, from a numbers point of view, I'm good for each pedal to have it's own loop. Can anyone convince me (and it probably won't take much) that apart from the odd bit of post-solo tap dancing, there's loads to gain?

Cheers!

UnclePsychosis

Switchers only have a point if they solve a problem. What problem are you trying to solve?

s_andrews

UnclePsychosis said:

Switchers only have a point if they solve a problem. What problem are you trying to solve?

Honestly and realistically, the fact I think the idea would be cool and that I haven't got one. 

vasselmeyer

What these units do is allow the switching of a particular combination of pedals and sounds to be accessed with one press of a button. I use one because I'm the sole guitarist in a three-piece and also have to do a lot of backing vocals. With the HB and the Joyo units (same hardware, different name) you put the pedals in the loops and then program a particular combination of those pedals in the presets and you can have four presets per bank. I had one of the Joyo units but found it too limiting as I had some midi-enabled pedals and in some cases I wanted the pedals in a different order. I also wanted delay carry-over which those models don't do.

I went with a BOSS-ES 8 which is a pretty amazing unit, although tricky to get your head around programming until you understand the menu structure. After that, it's a doddle. You can have any combination of pedals, in any order, can use it with 4CM, switch amp channels and reverb, and send out midi PC and CC values. This can all be done by one  button. It's brilliant. There are also other switchers which have launched since which do similar things. Of course, there's the venerable GigRig G2 which is really easy to program but has very limited midi capabilities and is showing its age now.

Of course, if I add up the flightcase, the pedals, the cables and the power supply, it's getting on for the equivelent of three new Helixes which are smaller, lighter and even more flexible and probably sound just as good, if not better, as well as having amp simulation. If I was in the market for a unit now, I wouldn't go with a switcher/looper, I'd look at the new generation of multi-FX.

However, if you love your current pedals and also love tinkering, switchers are great fun to play with.

Snags

I've got a JoYo PXL-8 (the non-midi one, probably the same one that @vasselmeyer had and needed to upgrade from).

For what I want, it's fine, although it is basic.  I got it because I didn't have posh needs, don't use midi, but did want the triggers so I could channel switch the amp and turn the amp reverb on/off. Once you get the hang of it, it's very easy to program, so much so that I quite often end up making new patches on the fly in some situations, and no-one notices because they're all too busy arguing about something else.

But ... even something slim like the JoYo is actually quite bulky when you allow for cables. So I ended up buying a bigger board. And then using it in the dual loop format (so you can do 4CM) is a PITA for access to the relevant I/O sockets, so I knocked up a couple of junction boxes to present all of the I/O on the edges of the board. And then your patch leads are all the wrong size/type so you buy a load more to cable it up.  And then at the end of all of it you realise that 80% of the time you're using it to switch from clean with delay to dirty without, or clean without to dirty with, and actually, frankly, you could have done that with two quick taps.  However, for the 20% where you going from comp + chorus + flanger + phaser + delay to overdrive + amp reverb it's rather handy.

Personally, like Howard, if I was starting from scratch I'd just get one of the decent multi-FX/modelling units first as last, because the one thing it can't do (unless you get one with midi capability and loads of midi pedals) is have patches where the effect settings are different patch to patch. Which actually would be more useful for my situation.  Also, it would work out cheaper; but, as with most things, getting to where I am now was lots of little steps, not one single expenditure.

Also, from what you've said above I'd diagnose GAS rather than need

s_andrews

Cheers @Snags, your diagnosis is absolutely bang on. And your usage is probably similar to mine. Thanks for the comments on cabling up and space on the board, definitely something to think about. 

I'm very happy with my pedal collection at the moment, and certainly does everything I'd like. I've got the odd extra pedal I occasionally throw in, but I hardly ever miss, so not sure I (currently) fancy the "drop everything and go multi-fx" route although I can definitely see the benefits. 

As it stands, I think i'll wait and see if any of the suitable units come up at a decent 2nd hand price and have a play.

John_P

If you need to reduce the tap dancing and have to switch multiple pedals in and out at once or have noise issues and want some pedals out of the chain when they aren’t being used they are great.  
if you don’t need that then I wouldn’t add the extra connections that can fail along with the complications and deciding in advance which combinations of pedals you want to use.   
I hate tap dancing but moved over to use an ax8 give let me do it in one switch and my board of separate pedals is very simple so I can manage without a switcher.  

exocet

@s_andrews ;; I have a Joyo PXL8 Live for sale . £50 posted if you'd like it?

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/137650/fs-joyo-pxl-live-8-loop-switcher-w-midi-65-posted#latest

s_andrews

exocet said:

@s_andrews ;; I have a Joyo PXL8 Live for sale . £50 posted if you'd like it?

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/137650/fs-joyo-pxl-live-8-loop-switcher-w-midi-65-posted#latest

Oh you sneaky man! I'll pm you shortly! 

siremoon

I gigged a Joyo PXL8 for a couple of years before I went over to Helix.  It does what it does very well imo, built like a tank and mine was totally reliable.

Dominic

A helix Hx will do it all and more with a massive amount more flexibility - a secondhand one will cost you the same as a decent looper and couple of pedals ..........you can pretty much get the sound of any pedal you have from it with a bit of tweaking and it just makes life so easy.

spirit7

Gigrig G2 is fantastic and a doddle to use.

srato

Switchers are overly complex, not intuitive at all, too expensive, not entirely reliable and require that you buy a lot of cables, etc.  That's my experience.

robinbowes

srato said:

Switchers are overly complex, not intuitive at all, too expensive, not entirely reliable and require that you buy a lot of cables, etc.  That's my experience.

You bought the wrong switcher.

I had a Gigrig G2 - great piece of kit, easy to use, and reliable.

I now use a Helix.

R.

hotpickups

Being the only guitarist in my band a switcher is crucial. Sometimes I have to switch to other fx for a chorus / verse for example which would be impossible if I had to tap dance my way there. It's s faf to faff to set up but once time has been spent it becomes easier