Is it possible to get GIbson's Min-Etune system to be accurate when tuning

FatBastard

I recently bought a Gibson SG Future Tribute 2013. I got it for a pretty good price at £549 from GAK (I do wish I had seen the bunch they sold at £399 at the end of last year). TBH a big part of that was because of the Min-Etune systems as I wanted to fiddle a bit with different tunings and do that quickly and smoothly and I did not care about all the fuss that Gibson purists made about such heresy.  However, I am in a quandary now as it just does not work well enough to be usable. It seems to tune the strings so they are vaguely in tune with each other so I did not notice it right away (my ear is not great either), but trying to play along with recorded music was horrible and it stopped me dead in the tracks. I'm in two minds now as it was quite a good price, and I actually do like the guitar quite a lot as its very playable and the tone has character. The thing is I have wayyyy more guitars than is actually legitimate for my level of ability, and the only justification I had was the min-Etune. I know that there were a whole lot of complaints about these (probably most due to the idea that it was unnecessary), but some users seem to use it fine.  I believe later iterations like the G-Force and Tronica's Tune Plus work better, but that would involve more cost and I was hoping to pick up a working solution.

I have contacted GAK and was hoping they might offer to get their guitar techs to see they could sort it, or even upgrade me to the more recent robotuners (Tronical Tune Plus Update PCB Type A is £60 from Thomann), but speaking to them the only thing they will offer to do is take it back. I have a Gibson SG 2016 Special reserved for me at another guitar store for slightly less money, so I could get a refund and buy that. I would be disappointed though as I like the 57 Classics and the 2016 SG has overwound high output mini humbuckers which I think will not be as much to my taste (for rhythm I like edge of breakup which low power pickups are best for and for lead I will rarely go hotter than say Rory Gallagher). Any advice on if this is easily fixable at reasonable cost? Otherwise, it seems a no brainer but to return it and get the other SG, although I would be sorry.

Thanks for listening!

p90fool

If it's in tune with itself but not with recorded music that's usually because the recorded music is not at standard concert pitch.

FatBastard

p90fool said:

If it's in tune with itself but not with recorded music that's usually because the recorded music is not at standard concert pitch.

No, it was definitely in standard pitch because I was playing along to things I play all the time with any number of my other guitars which are correctly tuned. I dont think it is even completely in tune with itself, but it was not horribly apparent until I played along to something else - like i say my ear is not the greatest

grungebob

^ was just about to post the same. 
You need to know what tuning the recording is in, a lot of the stuff I play along to is in Eb or Db.

ICBM

Refund while you have the chance. The system does not work well enough to be reliable, and never will. If you don't take the refund and eventually decide to sell it anyway, you'll lose a lot of money.

It's easy to change pickups in a guitar if that's the only thing you don't like about another one.

rossi

E tuners dont compensate for  intonation so check that too.my Midtown is fine but perhaps I was lucky .

Blaendulais

ICBM said:

Refund while you have the chance. The system does not work well enough to be reliable, and never will. If you don't take the refund and eventually decide to sell it anyway, you'll lose a lot of money.

It's easy to change pickups in a guitar if that's the only thing you don't like about another one.

Wiz this. Its crap and doesnt reliably tune.  Its not so much a purist issue as a tune a guitar correctly issue

FatBastard

Thanks for the feedback guys. The alternative guitar I can buy for slightly less money is the newer 2016 guitar with the later G-Force robotuners. Are these a definite upgrade in terms of accuracy? I will try it instore, but I'd like to hear other people's experiences with the laters ones (including Tronical Tuner Plus system made after the split with Gibson).

 I dont think losing money is a concern. It was £550 and these things in decent condition sell for about £450 used. That is pretty good depreciation considering the original cost. Also I like its playability and tone. I hope the 2016 G-Force is more useable...

FatBastard

grungebob said:

^ was just about to post the same. 
You need to know what tuning the recording is in, a lot of the stuff I play along to is in Eb or Db.

It's a reasonable question, but trust me this was not the case. I was able to put the guitar in tune properly when I used my chromatic tuner and the tuning pegs.

mixolyd

Unless it’s a great guitar in terms of tone and playability just return it.  The wonky tuners will bug you even when you aren’t using them - why saddle yourself with a flawed guitar when you don’t have to?

Legionreturns

I had an '16 SG Special HP with the up to date tuners. They were crap. 

Half the time the D & G strings got stuck trying to tune, then it started slackening off the low E for no apparent reason. I took it back and they put another set on. Same issue happened within a week. They took them off and ordered me a third set, and put some standard Grovers on instead while waiting for them. The guitar was so much better, that when the replacement G force arrived I just sold it. 

You cannot rely on or trust g force tuners, and to tune them manually is shit, as they're not geared properly. 

FatBastard

Legionreturns said:

I had an '16 SG Special HP with the up to date tuners. They were crap. 

Half the time the D & G strings got stuck trying to tune, then it started slackening off the low E for no apparent reason. I took it back and they put another set on. Same issue happened within a week. They took them off and ordered me a third set, and put some standard Grovers on instead while waiting for them. The guitar was so much better, that when the replacement G force arrived I just sold it. 

You cannot rely on or trust g force tuners, and to tune them manually is shit, as they're not geared properly. 

Disappointed to hear that since that very guitar is my alternative option. What did you think of the guitar aside from the G-Force out of interest?

ICBM

Just get a guitar with standard tuners. If you use different tunings, you said you have more guitars than you really need already - just keep them in the different tunings.

I have already seen a couple of 2015 Gibsons with the updated system with faulty tuners, and I'm sure they won't be the last.

Jez6345789

I got a 2015 junior in the Amazon fire sale awhile back not sure which version they had but with good strings and a full battery I can get it to usually go from standard, to DADGAG to open E or G for messing around. For tuning to standard after it gone out of tune a little it seems to bring it back fine.

that said every 8th on 9th time I retune to an open it goes completely bat shit crazy and never finds it. 

So so most of the time for home would not want to use it to tune my guitar for slide in a live situation

FatBastard

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It looks like I will return the 2013 Future Tribute. Have an option of either the 2016 SG Special HP or the 2016 Special Naked both for £500 instead. Anyone have an idea of what is the better deal. The Naked I think is like a stripped down classic and the Special HP I think is like a stripped down standard. I have seen quite a few reviews complaining about the build quality and finishing of the Naked Special though

Arktik83

Like people have said the tuning system is shite and if you ever suffer the misfortune to crack one of the plastic tuning key casings the tuner that is cracked will just whirr around like a madman and the whole system will fail to tune.  Believe me as it happened to a Les Paul I owned and so I ended up just gutting the tuners and putting some grovers on there.

With regards to your choices, I'd avoid any self tuning system be it min-etune or G-Force.  They're both naff, I'd go for the naked myself as it has traditional tuners.  Also, the HP's have pretty skinny necks AFAIK.  

ICBM

FatBastard said:

I have seen quite a few reviews complaining about the build quality and finishing of the Naked Special though

Don't worry, exactly the same is true of all Gibsons .

terada

Go for normal tuners as @ICBM says. The ones that tune themselves are useless

FatBastard

Sure, I understand your point guys. But I believe it is fairly easy to remove the autotuners if required, and if the Special HP is a better guitar overall, it might be worth purchasing - bearing the future removal in mind all the while. I did not know Gibson had a poor reputation for build quality. My Standard Les Paul is a very solidly put together. I have not read the Special HPs have frequent lapses in quality like the Nakeds though. Just a thought.

terada

FatBastard said:

Sure, I understand your point guys. But I believe it is fairly easy to remove the autotuners if required, and if the Special HP is a better guitar overall, it might be worth purchasing - bearing the future removal in mind all the while. I did not know Gibson had a poor reputation for build quality. My Standard Les Paul is a very solidly put together. I have not read the Special HPs have frequent lapses in quality like the Nakeds though. Just a thought.

No harm in removing them, but obviously there is the added cost of proper tuners.

With regard to Gibson build quality, this is a long debated topic. The abridged version:

- Gibson guitars are great, but you often have to try a bunch to find one that suits you best.
- QC issues such as blems, tool marks etc are unfortunately more common than they should be given the asking price.

A current thread on this http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/143706/gibson-guitars-are-the-negative-reviews-fair/p1 ;

Bigsby

If you REALLY want to mess around with it - you can adjust the Min-Etune to tune more slowly and more accurately. I did this with one and it worked fine. But you do have to read the manual, (and I know a lot of people hate to do that!). I ended up replacing mine with a G-Force, just because it was cheap to do, worked more quickly, and it meant I didn't have to remember different systems of button pushes for different guitars.

The G-Force is MUCH better than the Min-Etune on it's default settings, and still gives you the option to adjust for a balance of speed/accuracy. Of course, I've heard plenty of horror stories in places like this, but I've had three G-Force tuners, and no issues with any of them so far (I still have two - I sold a guitar with one of them).

The G-Force is the same as the Tronical Plus - it was just Gibson's name for the new model. 

I would recommend you avoid buying ANYTHING from Tronical directly - I had a dreadful experience with them. Shame, as a Strat with a Tronical Plus would be fantastic - I loathe retuning a guitar with a floating trem.

The HP SG models were quite a significant step up in terms of specifications, even on the lower budget models. I have a 2016 SG Standard HP, and it's the only Gibson I've ever bought new that was apparently free of ANY flaws*. It's a fantastic SG.  But they're Gibsons, so YMMV  

*Incidentally, I tried it back to back with another Standard HP, and I couldn't find a single issue with either of them. For me, that was a first when buying a Gibson.