About bloody time too !

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17708
    robgilmo said:
    Had a quick google, if we allow police officers to run people over then all cry out how they deserved it, where does it end?

    Here.?
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=police+shoot+innocent&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik06H69ojfAhX_RBUIHVLSAx4Q_AUIDygC&biw=1280&bih=571

    Irrelevant. That's the USA.

    It's really funny that people see the police as the enemy .... if you walk about with a gun or a knife then you're asking for trouble. All officers should have body cams as should police cars. Police officers aren't above the law but thus far no scooter rider has been killed. Scooter crime is falling - result.

    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14386

    I find it somewhat surprising there are no bleeding-heart comments for the poor members of the public that have been assaulted, deprived of their property and potentially run over, it’s interesting that their right not to have random violence perpetrated on them seem to be getting forgotten here, in lieu of the supposed rights of the criminal?

    I'd suggest that that side goes without saying.

    It seems unlikely that anyone who wants the police to act appropriately doesn't want the victims protected. But it is important that the police don't go all gung-ho; if knocking the moped riders off presents the least overall harm then fine. 

    Asking for checks and balances is pretty much the opposite of asking for lawless anarchy, if you think about it... 
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17708
    crunchman said:

    There are a relatively small number of perpetrators.

    Catching one of them might easily stop 50 crimes a month.

    I get your thinking but that's not bourne out by the stats.

    More than 97 per cent of London’s moped criminals escaped justice despite soaring rates of robberies in 2017-18, according to new data.

    Scotland Yard solved 2.6 per cent of moped crimes, or 643 of the 24,294 reported in the 12 months to April 2018, compared with 3.1 per cent the previous year. The Met believes that not all scooter crime is reported.

    Areas in which police have become aggressive have seen moped crime fall - however outer London has seen a big increase as thieves move to 'safer' areas .



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  • SnagsSnags Frets: 630
    There seems to be an assumption in some quarters/commenters that the options are "do nothing and let the scrotes get away with it indefinitely" or "actively try to kill them with extreme prejudice".

    Given that moped crime includes not just theft, but also acid attacks and other pretty extreme violence, and given that the little sods are actively trying to play plod at their own game by removing helmets etc. to force an end to a pursuit, I honestly don't see the problem with allowing a controlled nudge (not a hard core 60mph speed differential ram) of the bike to unsettle them and potentially tip them off.

    Yes, it could lead to injury. So could running away and scaling walls, fences, jumping blind over hedges etc. There is a certain tipping point where the choices you've made reduce the forces of Laura Norder's duty of care to you. Not eradicates. Not reverses. But reduces.

    And yes, it's entirely responsible to investigate each incident to make sure it's done within acceptable parameters.

    All of the above written as a card-carrying woolly liberal leftie hippy pearl-clutching effectively ex-biker with absolutely no particular love for plod or the strong arm of the State. The game has to have rules. Take the piss too much, and the rules will change to accommodate that.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1630
    Fretwired said:
    robgilmo said:
    Had a quick google, if we allow police officers to run people over then all cry out how they deserved it, where does it end?

    Here.?
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=police+shoot+innocent&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik06H69ojfAhX_RBUIHVLSAx4Q_AUIDygC&biw=1280&bih=571

    Irrelevant. That's the USA.

    It's really funny that people see the police as the enemy .... if you walk about with a gun or a knife then you're asking for trouble. All officers should have body cams as should police cars. Police officers aren't above the law but thus far no scooter rider has been killed. Scooter crime is falling - result.

    Its not irrelevant at all , my point was if we allow the police to dish out punishment , which believe it or not is not their job, then it will end badly, I dont see them as the enemy but if they are allowed to punish people without trial then yes, they would be. 
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  • DefaultMDefaultM Frets: 1979
    edited December 5
    Committing crimes like this is a choice. No one has to get on a moped and ride around ripping bags away from the vulnerable. 
    I chose to work hard to earn money to buy things that I want. Why should someone else choose to steal those things from me and face no consequences?

    The answer isn't that there are consequences, because there really aren't. There are consequences if you catch them, but how are you meant to do that if they're on a moped and you're not allowed to touch them?
    What are the police supposed to do? Let them get away and then perform some kind of mystical scan that will tell them who the criminal was and where they went?
    There's fuck all they can do, because the criminal is long gone. Do you know in what circumstances they wouldn't be long gone? If they were knocked off their vehicle and arrested beforehand.

    3 times now I've called the police, 3 times they've said there's nothing we can do, so it just keeps happening.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 3948
    Fretwired said:
    crunchman said:

    There are a relatively small number of perpetrators.

    Catching one of them might easily stop 50 crimes a month.

    I get your thinking but that's not bourne out by the stats.

    More than 97 per cent of London’s moped criminals escaped justice despite soaring rates of robberies in 2017-18, according to new data.

    Scotland Yard solved 2.6 per cent of moped crimes, or 643 of the 24,294 reported in the 12 months to April 2018, compared with 3.1 per cent the previous year. The Met believes that not all scooter crime is reported.

    Areas in which police have become aggressive have seen moped crime fall - however outer London has seen a big increase as thieves move to 'safer' areas .



    I think you missed what I was saying.  That 97% of unsolved crimes won't all have been by different criminals.  The same ones will be perpetrating multiple attacks:


    That gang was responsible for 103 attacks in 18 days.


    That article quotes a 24% drop in thefts of motorbikes and mopeds across 4 London boroughs that have a combined population of over a million just from the arrest and locking up of one family.

    Every one of these they deal with is likely to stop multiple crimes.  If they lock up 50 people, it might well bring the annual number of crimes down by several thousand.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17708
    robgilmo said:

    Its not irrelevant at all , my point was if we allow the police to dish out punishment , which believe it or not is not their job, then it will end badly, I dont see them as the enemy but if they are allowed to punish people without trial then yes, they would be. 
    The police are not dishing out punishment. They are not beating people up in the street. The officers who pursue scooters have clear guidelines and have been specially trained and organised into a group targetting criminal gangs on scooters. Not every police car can ram someone.

    Scooter robberies often involve extreme violence - stabbing, shooting, acid, beating with a hammer etc. Force has to be met with force.  They do it for the adrenaline rush and can make £2K a day.



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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1630
    edited December 5
    The Telegraph? Really? The police cant find them and get an admission yet the Telegraph can? And why didn't the Telegraph give their information on the identity of these people to the police? Possibly because the video is staged? Bet their sales went up as much as moped crime is going down.

     
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17708
    robgilmo said:
    The Telegraph? Really? The police cant find them and get an admission yet the Telegraph can? And why didn't the Telegraph give their information on the identity of these people to the police? Possibly because the video is staged? Bet their sales went up as much as moped crime is going down.

     
    You didn't watch the video did you .....
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  • ShrewsShrews Frets: 337
    This all comes back to 'Doing something' vs 'Doing Nothing' 

    Do nothing - you have uncontrolled idiots speeding along the highways and pavements of this country endangering the lives of other drivers and pedestrians. Oh, and let's not forget the law-abiding victim they've just robbed.

    Do something - you may knock someone off their moped who sustains an injury. Because it's a controlled collision it's likely to be minor although occasionally it might be more serious.

    As I said earlier, because this is 'controversial' you will probably hear about every story where the injury to the rider is more than minor. What you won't hear is where a moped flattens some poor chap going about his everyday work.

    Simple question really, If your own son/daughter was killed or maimed by one of these idiots I bet you'd have wished the practice of controlled collision would've continued. Instead - sigh - I suspect it'll be stopped. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 14386
    Snags said:

    I honestly don't see the problem with allowing a controlled nudge (not a hard core 60mph speed differential ram) of the bike to unsettle them and potentially tip them off.

    [snip]

    And yes, it's entirely responsible to investigate each incident to make sure it's done within acceptable parameters.

    Ta-da!

    Exactly this. Let's get away from the silly polarising. The police, like private citizens, should be allowed to use reasonable force to stop criminals. The police, like private citizens, should not be beyond sensible investigation into whether the force they use is indeed reasonable.

    It's ridiculous that there are people who seem to read this as "woolly liberals want the police stop doing anything to prevent crime and just hand out bags of guns and cash to criminals". No-one has suggested that.
    Parachutes are great, for dogs and Frenchmen. 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 1630
    Fretwired said:
    robgilmo said:
    The Telegraph? Really? The police cant find them and get an admission yet the Telegraph can? And why didn't the Telegraph give their information on the identity of these people to the police? Possibly because the video is staged? Bet their sales went up as much as moped crime is going down.

     
    You didn't watch the video did you .....

    robgilmo said:
    The Telegraph? Really? The police cant find them and get an admission yet the Telegraph can? Bet their sales went up as much as moped crime is going down.

     
    Nope, its from the Telegraph, I dont trust any newspaper to give me any facts at all these days, if I wanted someones sensationalised opinions drummed into me dressed up as truthful facts Id join the David Icke forum.

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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 17708
    robgilmo said:


     
    Nope, its from the Telegraph, I dont trust any newspaper to give me any facts at all these days, if I wanted someones sensationalised opinions drummed into me dressed up as truthful facts Id join the David Icke forum.

    They're ex-moped criminals so I guess they're known to the police and are more worried about local criminals (in answer to your question). It's mostly the ex-cons speaking .. nothing sensationalist at all. Sad really ..
    My pump-action drivel gun is smoking hot today!
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 4077
    I think it's criminal for anybody to ride a moped.............serious lack of street cred
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9298
    The shits have already put themselves outside the protection of the law by breaking the law and have only themselves to blame if they get hurt while running from the law.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 13736
    The police should have giant cannons that fire huge tennis balls at them - and change their sirens to the theme tune from 'It's a Knockout'.  That would be fab to see !!
    Never Argue With Idiots - They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

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  • DominicDominic Frets: 4077
    INTERVAL TIME
    Ice Creams and we really need A relevant Judas Priest "Breakin' the Law video " from the Ginger haired Landscape Gardner chap
     where is he when needed ?
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  • ShrewsShrews Frets: 337
    Dominic said:
    INTERVAL TIME
    Ice Creams and we really need A relevant Judas Priest "Breakin' the Law video " from the Ginger haired Landscape Gardner chap
     where is he when needed ?
    He's here:


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