Can you describe the difference in sound between '65 PRRI and '65 DRRI

soma1975

I don't really know the ins and outs of the myriad Fender models but have my eye on one of these at the mo when I sell my Marshall. 

Do they have a core tonal difference past the headroom and extra speaker on the DR?

Cheers.

crunchman

10" vs 12" speaker does sound different, but there are other differences.  The DRRI is louder because of the higher power, and the more efficient 12" speaker.

They are both great amps but I prefer the Princeton.  If you don't need the extra volume of the Deluxe, I think the Princeton sounds a bit sweeter.  It's also more portable.

soma1975

Cheers. Sort of confirms what I was thinking.

ICBM

[Slight bit of technical geek ahead]

They're actually more different than you may think, largely because of the very different phase inverter design - the Princeton uses the simpler 'cathodyne' type found in the Tweed Deluxe, whereas the Deluxe uses the 'long-tailed pair' type  found in most more modern and higher-power amps. The Princeton is warmer and slightly rougher, even when not overdriven - if that makes sense! - the Deluxe is clearer and cleaner. The Princeton also has a more 'pushy' bias-modulation tremolo which interacts more with the overdrive, whereas the Deluxe has the smoother opto-coupler trem - replaced by a digitally-controlled unit to avoid RoHS regulations on recent models, and which I don't think sounds as good.

[No-geek version] - the Princeton is a 'small amp', the Deluxe is more like a 'small large amp'. From the Deluxe up to the Twin, the circuit is basically the same.

soma1975

Cheers @ICBM that's great info. 

Wazmeister

I always feel that a PR is warmer, sweeter... whilst the DR has a louder, wider sound (if that makes sense).

Funkfingers

soma1975 said:

Can you describe the difference in sound between _________ and _________?

Hell, no. Words are woefully inadequate for describing sound.

menamestom

The Princeton is warmer, softer, sweeter.  The Deluxe has more push, louder, more authority and bigger sound.   

jellybelly

I compared the two ‘68 models extensively and have played the ‘65s. The Deluxe sounds like a twin - very ‘hi fi’ while the Princeton has more ‘give’ and compression and a warmer tonality.

As ICBM mentions the trem is quite different- the Princeton has THE tube bias trem sound the pedals struggle to recreate, the Deluxe is choppier and just less appealing all round - plenty of pedals can do a better job at that sound IMO. The 12 vs 10 thing can be overstated- 10s are more focussed, fewer ‘low’ lows and tighter all around. If you’ve got a big gig get a cheap 2x12 and plug in!

For me it was a no brainier in favour of the Princeton. Others have said exactly the same thing in favour of the Deluxe and the Deluxe undeniably has more headroom and is certainly the choice if you want sparkly clean Fender blackface tones. If you want pushed/crunchy/rootsy blackface tones though it has to be the Princeton - the power is perfect for some valve saturation at drummer levels!!

soma1975

Thanks that’s exactly what I wanted to hear. Looks like Princeton all the way for me. 

fandango

In comparing, do remember Fender also made some Princetons with 12” speakers, such as:

A Limited Edition Princeton in Tweed with Cannabis Rex (based on the ‘65).
The FSR ‘68 CPR Black & Blue with Celestion blue alnico speaker.
An Exclusive 65 Princeton Reverb British Green with Celestion G12.

Hope that’s whetted your appetite.

soma1975

I’ll most likely get whichever Princeton I can find for a billy bargain. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Can you get to a fender dealer to try them both out?

jellybelly

If you’re coming from a Marshall you might prefer the ‘68 if you use single coils - I’ve seen them as low as £550; ‘65s tend to be around £100-£150 more. 

soma1975

It’s a Marshall Astoria with KT88s so not really a JCM or anything. 

Got a Strat and a Les Paul. Was led to believe the ‘68 isn’t really a reissue and that the ‘65 was the one to go for. 

soma1975

lonestar said:

Can you get to a fender dealer to try them both out?

That’s just crazy talk! 

jellybelly

soma1975 said:

It’s a Marshall Astoria with KT88s so not really a JCM or anything. 

Got a Strat and a Les Paul. Was led to believe the ‘68 isn’t really a reissue and that the ‘65 was the one to go for. 

They aren’t miles apart, just some (5 or 6) different components and a Celestion speaker. I changed mine to a Jensen alnico that’s brought it back towards the classic Fender camp but plan to try some other mods.  

As I described the Princeton as being a bit softer and warmer above, the 68 is that but moreso.

soma1975

I'd read somewhere that the '68 flubs out with humbuckers a little earlier than the '65. Assume that can be offset with a speaker change?

jellybelly

soma1975 said:

I'd read somewhere that the '68 flubs out with humbuckers a little earlier than the '65. Assume that can be offset with a speaker change?

That or bypassing a resistor they added to the bass control which puts the minimum value e of the bass up to around ‘4’ on the dial. The stock Celestion isn’t nearly as bad as some make out though!

Too much bass is never an issue with my Jaguar so I assume your Strat will be fine with it ‘stock’. I believe the mod I mention above is for r34 - google it, plenty of info on TDPRI in particular!

jellybelly

I’m also planning to try the ‘65 value for the tone capacitor and negative feedback circuits while I’m off work - I’ll let you know if it makes a difference!

soma1975

Much appreciated for the info.