Hot Rod Deluxe with JJ valves - darker?

Philtre

I recently re-valved my HRD III with all JJ valves, replacing the stock Groove Tubes that came with the amp. I'm not sure for certain, and it's a pain to swap them out again to A/B them, but they seem to sound darker and less Fendery jangly than before. Anyone have any experience of this?

simonk

I often found JJ’s sounded darker than other brands. Sometimes this suited the amp they went in, sometimes not.

Dave_Mc

^ Ditto (though I haven't tried them in an HRD).

Philtre

Not sure if it's the 12AX7 pre-amps or the 6L6s. Or both.

ICBM

I really dislike JJ preamp valves for this exact reason, they always sound overly dark and muddy to me.

The power valves aren't as bad though, and it's a piece of cake to swap the preamp valves in a HRD, you don't even need to take the back off.

Maynehead

Fear not, your ears have not deceived you.

I have often used JJ preamp valves to tame the high end on amps that are overly fizzy, because they do a very good job of achieving that. But in your case, they are not the right match.

However, there is a quick and cheap fix. Simply buy a single Tungsol 12ax7 preamp valve and replace the JJ in the v1 position. You will find that most of the jangliness will be returned by doing that.

Philtre

Thanks for feedback, guys.

@Maynehead Thanks, I'll try that.

ICBM

Just put one or all of the original valves back, you don’t need any more.

Philtre

ICBM said:

Just put one or all of the original valves back, you don’t need any more.

The old ones were getting noisy, or at least some of them were. I'll try swapping them into v1 and compare.

martinw

I've been putting JJs in HRDs for 12 years, universally to positive comments.
The general opinion is that it makes the amp warmer.
You have to be careful that you don't listen with somebody else's preconceptions!

ICBM

martinw said:

I've been putting JJs in HRDs for 12 years, universally to positive comments.
The general opinion is that it makes the amp warmer.
You have to be careful that you don't listen with somebody else's preconceptions!

One person's 'warmer' is another's 'middy and muddy' . There's certainly no other way of explaining the unfathomable popularity of the Blues Junior - *some* people must like them!

Philtre's experience seems un-preconceived though... but in my opinion accurate.

martinw

I was going to put in my comment that one person's middy/muddy/dark is another's warmer! But also you can do the same with bright, jangle, shrill and ice-picky, and most other adjectives

I've no doubt that Philtre's opinion is accurate to both of you, but it's still just an opinion.

What I'm trying to do is add balance, hopefully with some weight behind it.

I totally agree about the Blues Junior though, so we don't differ on everything!

Philtre

I just popped one of the original GT 12AX7s into v1 and did an A/B test. The JJ was more boomy on the bottom end, and the GT less so. Mrs. Philtre could also hear the difference.

Question - if swapping out v1 seems to make a difference, would putting a GT back in V2 also help?

Maynehead

Philtre said:

I just popped one of the original GT 12AX7s into v1 and did an A/B test. The JJ was more boomy on the bottom end, and the GT less so. Mrs. Philtre could also hear the difference.

Question - if swapping out v1 seems to make a difference, would putting a GT back in V2 also help?

I think V2 only affects the drive channels, but yeah, it will make a (smaller) difference to the drive sound.

ICBM

Philtre said:

Question - if swapping out v1 seems to make a difference, would putting a GT back in V2 also help?

Probably, but less. Only half of it is in use unless More Drive is selected, although that half is on the clean channel too.

Philtre

Thanks, I'll try v2 later.

BTW - what are Groove Tubes? Are they rebranded valves?

Maynehead

Yes, they're usually either rebranded Chinese Shuguang or Russian Sovtek. They also rebrand JJs, so it would be ironic if your GT was actually a JJ anyway 

If you have a picture I should be able to tell you which one it is.

Philtre

Maynehead said:

Yes, they're usually either rebranded Chinese Shuguang or Russian Sovtek. They also rebrand JJs, so it would be ironic if your GT was actually a JJ anyway 

If you have a picture I should be able to tell you which one it is.

Thanks. Here's some pics:

 

Maynehead

Bad news mate, they’re JJs! 

The difference might just just be a fresher valve, usually you’ll get a bit more top and bottom with fresh valves.

Philtre

Maynehead said:

Bad news mate, they’re JJs! 

The difference might just just be a fresher valve, usually you’ll get a bit more top and bottom with fresh valves.

I did just upload some pics of the JJ by accident, so just to confirm that you looked at the one with GT on it?

Maynehead

Yes, I looked at the GT branded pic, you can compare the internal structure yourself with the JJ, they should be the same.