Calling all Gibson ES 345 experts. (turns out it might be a 340!)

Blaendulais

Does look like writing over the original sticker.  If it turned out a Gibson factory error I wouldn't be surprised 

stickyfiddle

Marshall_stax said:

This is turning into quite the mystery then...

 guitars4you said:

Jimbro66 said:

Interesting that the label says ES 345 when the fret markers and lack of VariTone suggest ES-335. There has to be a story to that.

As regards value, one thing I can say from experience is that blonde models are considered more desirable in the States than they are here.

when I posted my first comments (see above) I had seen no pics, but now that I have seen some pics then I agree with your comments - It is a 335 - That serial number looks like someone in the past has written over the original faded stamped info - If so I wonder if someone has implied 345 instead of 335 - Numbers should be stamped not written for that era

Changed tuners as well - Not sure at this stage if factory fitted Bigsby or fitted at a later date

funnily enough, despite the fact that a new 345 was more expensive than a new 335 back in the day, a used 335 is more desirable and worth more than a corresponding used 345

If the Bigsby was fitted later, would there not be holes in the body where the stop tail would have been? 

Having just spoken with Carl, he says he picked it up at 30th street guitars in New York in 1998. Paid $1000 for it. He's going to send over some better pics tonight. 

A late 60’s 335 would usually have had a trapeze tailpiece, so no holes for a stoptail. 

Marshall_stax

More pics. 

koss59

Looks to me like it’s an ES-340. A strange model that came out in 69. They had the maple neck.
I’ll try find a link.

koss59

http://www.es-335.com/2010/07/02/es-340-bad-idea-good-value/

Marshall_stax

koss59 said:

Looks to me like it’s an ES-340. A strange model that came out in 69. They had the maple neck.
I’ll try find a link.

Fantastic spot! Thanks @koss59, I think you may be on to something there. 

guitars4you

koss59 said:

Looks to me like it’s an ES-340. A strange model that came out in 69. They had the maple neck.
I’ll try find a link.

great detective work there @koss59 - would not have seen this based on earlier pics but explains some of the earlier mystery regarding the over written serial number on the orange label - So only the 5 for an 0 is wrong

Jimbro66

Marshall_stax said:

koss59 said:

Looks to me like it’s an ES-340. A strange model that came out in 69. They had the maple neck.
I’ll try find a link.

Fantastic spot! Thanks @koss59, I think you may be on to something there. 

If it is indeed a 340 it would be interesting to know if it still has the original control configuration and harness or has at some time been modified to standard 335 config.

ICBM

peteri said:

Looks to me like the bridge pickup cover is shinier than the other, could be a replacement?

The neck pickup cover is nickel-plated and the bridge is chrome, so the neck one - or the whole pickup - is a replacement, as Gibson were using chrome after 1965.

Marshall_stax

ICBM said:

peteri said:

Looks to me like the bridge pickup cover is shinier than the other, could be a replacement?

The neck pickup cover is nickel-plated and the bridge is chrome, so the neck one - or the whole pickup - is a replacement, as Gibson were using chrome after 1965.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the bridge pup is a replacement. I'm due to have lunch with Carl today so I'll enquire in more detail. I might try to get my hands on the guitar in the coming weeks if he doesn't take it down to Feline before then. 

DB1

I can't add too much, apart from to slightly support the '340' theory. Here's a pic of the neck of my 1968 ES-330 - Mike at @ATB_Guitars described it as '3 piece construction more commonly seen on an ES-340'.

guitars4you

Marshall_stax said:

ICBM said:

peteri said:

Looks to me like the bridge pickup cover is shinier than the other, could be a replacement?

The neck pickup cover is nickel-plated and the bridge is chrome, so the neck one - or the whole pickup - is a replacement, as Gibson were using chrome after 1965.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the bridge pup is a replacement. I'm due to have lunch with Carl today so I'll enquire in more detail. I might try to get my hands on the guitar in the coming weeks if he doesn't take it down to Feline before then. 

if you have a dentist mirror, poke it through the f-hole and you might be able to see if any new solder joints to indicate p/up changes and/or wiring changes - Obviously other option is to take the p/up out and have a look underneath

Marshall_stax

guitars4you said:

Marshall_stax said:

ICBM said:

peteri said:

Looks to me like the bridge pickup cover is shinier than the other, could be a replacement?

The neck pickup cover is nickel-plated and the bridge is chrome, so the neck one - or the whole pickup - is a replacement, as Gibson were using chrome after 1965.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the bridge pup is a replacement. I'm due to have lunch with Carl today so I'll enquire in more detail. I might try to get my hands on the guitar in the coming weeks if he doesn't take it down to Feline before then. 

if you have a dentist mirror, poke it through the f-hole and you might be able to see if any new solder joints to indicate p/up changes and/or wiring changes - Obviously other option is to take the p/up out and have a look underneath

If it were mine I'd have had the pups out for a good look by now but Carl is a little over cautious when it comes to these things. I'll mention the mirror idea to him again. 

If I get a chance to get my hands on it anytime soon I'll pull the pups out for him and have a look. 

Thanks again for all the help chaps! 

Jimbro66

Doing a bit of a trawl of t’Internet reveals that not many ES-340s have retained the original wiring, switching and controls. Most seem to have been converted to 335 wiring. The controls were originally one master volume, two tones and a blend. The guitar in this thread has vol, two tones and an unmarked knob. I suspect that it also was converted to 335 wiring and at least one of the pickups changed, maybe at the same time? Looking forward to hearing the findings.

Now I really should get on with some work  

Marshall_stax

Jimbro66 said:

Doing a bit of a trawl of t’Internet reveals that not many ES-340s have retained the original wiring, switching and controls. Most seem to have been converted to 335 wiring. The controls were originally one master volume, two tones and a blend. The guitar in this thread has vol, two tones and an unmarked knob. I suspect that it also was converted to 335 wiring and at least one of the pickups changed, maybe at the same time? Looking forward to hearing the findings.

Now I really should get on with some work  

Oh yeah - work! 

Thanks for that @Jimbro66. Having just spent an hour with good ol Carl over lunch, I can confirm it has indeed be rewired to 335 standards. At the moment though, still no idea what the bridge pup is. 

Watch this space. 

p90fool

Marshall_stax said:
 At the moment though, still no idea what the bridge pup is. 

Don't be surprised if @ICBM ; is right and it's the original, and that it's the neck pickup which has been changed. 

Marshall_stax

p90fool said:

Marshall_stax said:
 At the moment though, still no idea what the bridge pup is. 

Don't be surprised if @ICBM ; is right and it's the original, and that it's the neck pickup which has been changed. 

All duly noted. Just realised I misread @ICBM's post regarding the neck pickup. 

I'm desperate to get at it with a screwdriver now but have a feeling it will be Jon that gets to do that when it turns up on his bench at Feline. 

Will keep you all posted.  

Voxman

Interesting re the maple neck - it's very much like the neck on my Samick factory 1989 Epiphone Sheraton II (btw - those aren't dents, just odd reflections! )

DB1

Just looking at the link on @miserneil's Sweet Home Alabama thread and spotted this - https://cartervintage.com/collections/gibson-electrics/products/gibson-es-340-1970