Buying my first valve amp.

YellowLedBetterMan

BeardyAndy said:

So, I thought I was done and settled on one of the Vox amps, until Mr PMT man threw in the curveball many of you here have. I tried the Boss Katana 100. As expected it took me 10-15 minutes to find a sound I liked, but once I found it I was set. Clean channel, gain just over half way, built in Blues Driver effect, little bit of reverb. Awesome. No it didn't sound like a Vox, and some of the built in effects were a bit underwhelming (particularly some of the drives and modulations), and it did a weird noise gatey thing, but still the tone from the amp was killer. On the 0.5w setting It had all the volume I would want for home use, I could crank it up to the 50w if I was home alone and should I ever go mad and decide to join a band, the 100w I can imagine being loud enough for pretty much any venue. Grade A.

Out of interest, what guitar were you using?

I used an Ibanez Artcore Semi Hollow for the most part as it was the closest thing they had in stock to my 335 Copy, that wasn't an actual Gibson ES335, which I assume would sound good with pretty much anything. I also used a Harley Benton Tele into the Katana as they had the Paisley one in their second hand rack and thought it looked pretty cool.

BeardyAndy

YellowLedBetterMan said:

BeardyAndy said:

So, I thought I was done and settled on one of the Vox amps, until Mr PMT man threw in the curveball many of you here have. I tried the Boss Katana 100. As expected it took me 10-15 minutes to find a sound I liked, but once I found it I was set. Clean channel, gain just over half way, built in Blues Driver effect, little bit of reverb. Awesome. No it didn't sound like a Vox, and some of the built in effects were a bit underwhelming (particularly some of the drives and modulations), and it did a weird noise gatey thing, but still the tone from the amp was killer. On the 0.5w setting It had all the volume I would want for home use, I could crank it up to the 50w if I was home alone and should I ever go mad and decide to join a band, the 100w I can imagine being loud enough for pretty much any venue. Grade A.

Out of interest, what guitar were you using?

I used an Ibanez Artcore Semi Hollow for the most part as it was the closest thing they had in stock to my 335 Copy, that wasn't an actual Gibson ES335, which I assume would sound good with pretty much anything. I also used a Harley Benton Tele into the Katana as they had the Paisley one in their second hand rack and thought it looked pretty cool.

There's some ridiculously good looking guitars in the 2019 Artcore range, and at the tempting end of the market!

YellowLedBetterMan

BeardyAndy said:

There's some ridiculously good looking guitars in the 2019 Artcore range, and at the tempting end of the market!

I saw bright turquoise and baby pink ES335 types from Ibanez too. They looked so nice but I didn't play one.

NelsonP

YellowLedBetterMan said:

So in PMT, I explained the situation to a lad working there. He helped me pick out a few amplifiers and allowed me to play whatever I liked the look of. I took notes in my phone of everything I played:

 - Fender Bassbreaker 007 - took 10 minutes trying to get it to work. Concluded one of the valves had blown, put it in the back with a note to send back to Fender. Grade N/A.

 - Blackstar HT1 Combo - First impressions were good, but I put that down to it being the first amp I heard. Did medium crunch quite well, but clean not so much. Seemed to also clip/compress quite heavily when I put a Boss BD-2 into it and it lost a lot of definition and sounded muddy. I don't think the tiny speaker did it many favours in sounding like an organic amp. Not the worst, but not the best either. Grade C.

 - Blackstar HT5 Combo - A considerable step up from the HT1. Sounded pretty big and the clean tone was usable, if a little uninspiring. Again, it's strength came when putting gain into it, and I particularly enjoyed the clean channel with the gain near max, and the OD channel with the gain around half way. Let down by it's crap built-in reverb and general dark sounding nature. Grade B-

 - Albion something or other - Sounded OK. Looked horrid though, and after the experience with the Fender I worried about how much of a ball ache it would be if something went wrong with it. Plus they wanted £340 for it, and nowhere does them second hand. Grade C.

 - Peavey Valveking 212 - I loved the sound of it. Sounded exceptionally good when I put the BD-2 into it. I know for sure though that I wouldn't be able to keep it at home without a noise complaint from the rest of the village. Grade B.

 - Orange Tiny Terror Combo - Hated it. Too much gain and shredtastic for me, played 4 chords and put it back. Grade E.

 - Vox AC15VR - Sounded ace, got very close to that Vox tone, but there was something different in the way it sounded. Until this point was the nicest amp I tried. Grade A-.

 - Vox AC4TV - Sounded sort of Voxy, but felt like the 4w mode was too clean and the 1w and less than 1w settings had absolutely no headroom at all and especially the less than a watt setting I could hear the guitar louder than the amp. Tiny speaker sounded tinny too. Grade C

 - Marshall Origin 5 combo - Uninspiring. It didn't sound Marshall-esque gainy, nor Fendery clean. Better than some of the amps I tried, but still not super. Grade B.

I didn't try out the Tweaker, although the lad in the shop showed me a picture of him using the tweaker 30 combo and he said he loved it. To be fair to him, he also said the Excelsior wasn't really the best and some of the other amps in the shop were more worth the money.

So, I thought I was done and settled on one of the Vox amps, until Mr PMT man threw in the curveball many of you here have. I tried the Boss Katana 100. As expected it took me 10-15 minutes to find a sound I liked, but once I found it I was set. Clean channel, gain just over half way, built in Blues Driver effect, little bit of reverb. Awesome. No it didn't sound like a Vox, and some of the built in effects were a bit underwhelming (particularly some of the drives and modulations), and it did a weird noise gatey thing, but still the tone from the amp was killer. On the 0.5w setting It had all the volume I would want for home use, I could crank it up to the 50w if I was home alone and should I ever go mad and decide to join a band, the 100w I can imagine being loud enough for pretty much any venue. Grade A.

Moral of the story - Maybe it isn't a valve amp I want, but a really good digital. My only concern would be whether it took pedals well, as I don't want the little collection of effects I have bought to go to waste.

Also - I'd like to take this opportunity to recommend PMT Birmingham. Their staff are incredibly helpful, passionate and I've never in my 6 years of shopping there for bass, live equipment and now guitar, felt pressured into buying anything there. They're very happy to allow you to try anything you like and let the gear sell itself.

Very interesting. I was looking for a 'home use' rig a few years back - tried an HT5 and made exactly the same assessment as you.. Tried a Katana and liked it a lot, but found the tone a little 'dry' (that could probably be fixed quite easily with a bit of tweaking). Ended up with an Atomic Amplifire and headphones, and now with a Laney IRT-X.

To be honest I think it's more a case of making a realistic assessment of how you will use it. If it's home use then most valve amps will get your family banging on the ceiling pretty quickly. 'Modelling' has come on a long way. It still won't give you that ultimate feel and tone that you get from a valve amp, but you gain a lot in flexibility.

That Katana in the classifieds is looking like a good buy !

ICBM

YellowLedBetterMan said:

 - Vox AC15VR - Sounded ace, got very close to that Vox tone, but there was something different in the way it sounded. Until this point was the nicest amp I tried. Grade A-.

One problem with comparing combos is that you have no idea what the speaker inside is in most cases. The Vox VR series are a case in point - I think they sound good but not exceptional... but the speakers are uninspiring and strangle the tone of the amp somewhat. When I was repairing one (it was actually just a dead valve, which can happen with hybrid amps too!), out of curiosity I ran it through a much better cab, and both the tone and volume difference was remarkable - it really sounded excellent.

This doesn't help you a lot, I know - it's hard to buy an amp just on the hunch that it will sound how you want if you spend another £50-£100 on a new speaker.

I agree with your assessments of all the other amps too, of the ones I've tried as well. The only extra advice I can add as a repairer would be to avoid the Bassbreaker 007 - no surprise that it was dead, they have a design fault which leads to them blowing valves, although it can be fixed - and the Peavey Valve King if it's the newer model with white knobs... surprising, given how much I praise the reliability of their solid-state amps, but this one unfortunately also has an unnecessary design fault that can be extremely serious - in fact terminal - if the amp is out of warranty when it happens.

YellowLedBetterMan

ICBM said:

... and the Peavey Valve King if it's the newer model with white knobs... surprising, given how much I praise the reliability of their solid-state amps, but this one unfortunately also has an unnecessary design fault that can be extremely serious - in fact terminal - if the amp is out of warranty when it happens.

I believe it was an older one. Black knobs and a Peavey logo with wings. It wasn't awful but Jesus was it loud.

SlopeSoarer

YellowLedBetterMan said:

So I'm looking at buying my first valve amp once some of my other gear on the marketplace here sells (shameless plug).

Just was looking for some advice. I pretty much solely play in the house, with the exception being when I go 300 yards down the road to my cousins for a guitar lesson and jam session. So it doesn't need to be uber loud, as the most it ever will have to do it one other amp and an electric drumkit, and even that's a once a month thing. I find my Peavey Bandit just too much volume for what I currently need and also too big for the bedroom.

In terms of tones I'm not really looking for anything too gainy, I prefer the sound of Fender cleans with pedals running into them or Voxy type crunch tones, but not such a big fan of dimed metal tones.

I'm currently looking at used Fender Superchamps, Vox AC4s, AC10s and Orange Tiny Terror combos, but am open to suggestions.

I suppose my budget all in would be £200-£250. I know this is asking a lot so will be looking at second hand gear, which is why I can't really test loads of amps in person.

I bought a used SubZero Tube 20R, which is a Gear4music own brand. I got it off ebay for £130 and it is brilliant. My wealthier brother has a Fender Blues Junior IV (amongst several other nice amps) and there is little between the two.

May fit your needs without breaking the bank.

ICBM

SlopeSoarer said:

I bought a used SubZero Tube 20R, which is a Gear4music own brand. I got it off ebay for £130 and it is brilliant. My wealthier brother has a Fender Blues Junior IV and there is little between the two.

Which also shows how overpriced the Blues Junior is. (I know the Subzero is actually £260 new - but that's still less than half the price of the Fender.)

darthed1981

Just to say...

The katanas take pedals just fine.

I use them with mine, all good.

HAL9000

YellowLedBetterMan said:

 I tried the Boss Katana 100... My only concern would be whether it took pedals well, as I don't want the little collection of effects I have bought to go to waste.

I have a Katana 50. My (small handful of) pedals consists of a Boss Blues Driver, MXR Phase 90, and MXR Carbon Copy. Despite Boss's extravagant claims, the 'real' Blues Driver is markedly superior to the one built in to the Katana - more tweakable and easier to adjust on the fly. Also tried a friend's TubeScreamer through it and that was good too. 

YellowLedBetterMan

Woke up this morning and my Peavey Bandit has sold. Only need to have a few pedals sell and I'll be pulling the trigger on something.

Leading candidate right now is a boss katana. I think it has everything i need and assume It can be made to sound somewhat Voxy using  the boss tone studio - can someone confirm whether I have the right idea that you can load patches in that sound somewhat like other amps? And what's this sneakyamps thing?

Interesting someone mentioned the SubZero stuff. I have heard mixed reports from a few people regarding longevity of some of the components. The guitarist in a band I support has used one of the 50w ones for years. My cousin had a 5w one that went back after 6 weeks because the transformer was dodgy.

viz

YellowLedBetterMan said:

Woke up this morning - duh der der de duh

And my Peavey has sold - duh der der de duh

It’s in with the new stuff - duh der der de duh

And out with the old - duh der der de duh etc

Corrected

stickyfiddle

builttospill said:

ICBM said:

Fender-ish clean to Vox-ish crunch to the lower end of Marshall-ish overdrive - Laney VC15 1x10”.

Light enough to carry - and with an unusually comfortable handle for an amp this size - quiet enough for the house and loud enough to jam with, and should be within your budget second hand.

The Jensen speaker version tips it more towards the Fender/Vox sounds than the Marshall ones and the digital reverb is better than the spring, if you have a choice.

^^This!! Laney VC-15 I had one and it was superb, my first valve amp, lovely cleans and a decent valve overdrive, great pedal platform too and can be had for fairly cheap on secondhand market 

Massive +1 for this. 

Hugely underrated amps nd therefore stupidly cheap for a used one. 

Most cheap valve amps veer towards "compromised" in terms of features - so often it's just one volume and a tone knob. The VC15 is much more like a "proper" amp in a small package.

Dave_Mc

simonk said:

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I have a rare free day today so headed into my local PMT. They have a used Peavey Valveking 212 for £195, a Fender excelsior for £250 and an Egnater Tweaker 15 head and cab for £300. They also have a load of used Black Star HT1s for sale.

The Excelsior is an oddity with the stock speaker and without having had the tone switch mod done. By the time you put a better speaker (more efficient) in there it’s brutally loud. So, I’d rule that one out unless you’re keen on the stock sounds.

Also, some of them rattled.

I also think that price is around what they went for when they were new, too.

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

The Excelsior is an oddity with the stock speaker and without having had the tone switch mod done. By the time you put a better speaker (more efficient) in there it’s brutally loud. So, I’d rule that one out unless you’re keen on the stock sounds.

Also, some of them rattled.

I also think that price is around what they went for when they were new, too.

That’s overpriced for such a limited, poorly-made amp. They do have a distinctive sound and look but it’s in spite of the quality rather than because of it.

@YellowLedBetterMan
I forgot to say earlier - if you didn’t try the Tweaker, make sure you do next time. They’re really very nice, although have an annoying ‘feature’ in that the tone suddenly improves hugely when the master volume is above halfway. Once you’ve heard that it’s hard to unhear when you’re trying to play it quietly .

Voxman

Another vote for the Laney Cub. Come in a number of flavours. The 12R is imo the best value...12 inch speaker, fx loop, 8/16w extn cab out, built in kick stand, good quality digital reverb, full 3 band eq  plus additional tone shape control. I love mine!  Very nice clean tones and British rock crunch.

But its an EL84 amp so if you want a more Fender 6v6 feel the smaller Cub options with 8 and 10 inch speakers, albeit more basic controls and less features, may be a better fit for you. 

57Deluxe

@YellowLedBetterMan ;;; - it doesn't really matter which VALVE amp you buy first as you will categorically and emphatically, be buying a second and a third in quick succession.

This is because your first Valver will open your ears to the Fairy Dust and Unicorn qualities of valves (actually by virtue of the fundamental harmonics of the technology) and you will want more classic varieties to play with and endulge in. So whether its a Vox, Fender or vintage or modern British or American gain amp, you will want the others in the set too. So just get started and take your first foot forward on a long journey.

ICBM

57Deluxe said:

@YellowLedBetterMan ;;; - it doesn't really matter which VALVE amp you buy first as you will categorically and emphatically, be buying a second and a third in quick succession.

This is because your first Valver will open your ears to the Fairy Dust and Unicorn qualities of valves (actually by virtue of the fundamental harmonics of the technology) and you will want more classic varieties to play with and endulge in. So whether its a Vox, Fender or vintage or modern British or American gain amp, you will want the others in the set too. So just get started and take your first foot forward on a long journey.

True. If you buy a Valve Junior first, you will then immediately want to buy another amp because you can't believe how much worse it sounds than the solid-state amp you were using before. If the one you buy after that is a Blues Junior then a third will indeed swiftly follow...

HAL9000

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I think it has everything i need and assume It can be made to sound somewhat Voxy using  the boss tone studio - can someone confirm whether I have the right idea that you can load patches in that sound somewhat like other amps? And what's this sneakyamps thing?

I haven't tried using the tone studio so can't comment on it. However the Katana  doesn't IMHO really sound like anything else - it's very much its own thing. The sneakyamps thing is supposed to be pretty good.

YellowLedBetterMan

HAL9000 said:

YellowLedBetterMan said:

I think it has everything i need and assume It can be made to sound somewhat Voxy using  the boss tone studio - can someone confirm whether I have the right idea that you can load patches in that sound somewhat like other amps? And what's this sneakyamps thing?

I haven't tried using the tone studio so can't comment on it. However the Katana  doesn't IMHO really sound like anything else - it's very much its own thing. The sneakyamps thing is supposed to be pretty good.

Either way, I did really like some of the default amp tones. The crunch channel with the gain past 2 o clock and the lead channel with the gain around half way sounded awesome.