The amazing disappearing fuzz

thecolourbox

So, i was playing along to my hifi the other day, when doing that i like to keep it simple with od and fuzz/distortion. I was using my Joyo Sweet Baby overdrive, and thought it might go nicely with the Joyo octave fuzz thing. And it did, actually, while i was sound checking the levels etc.

But when i put the hifi on, od bit sounded good, went for the big solo, on went the fuzz....where the hell did it vanish to? Could hardly hear it. Is this what people mean by fuzzes "disappearing in a mix"?

steamabacus

Yep. 

I'm sure there's a good physics explanation but you have to have fuzzes set so that, in isolation, they sound way too loud. In a band mix the levels sound completely different.

smudge_lad

it's all in the mids, or lack of them in most fuzzes

thecolourbox

It is bizarre isn't it. The joyo does seem low on the volume, but was still surprising how much it totally vanished.

Travisthedog

Only way I can ever use a fuzz live is to boost the nuts off it with a spark booster or an mxr micro amp

No more disappearing fuzz

thecolourbox

Well when I've used them before ive used a muff and not had the issue, albeit in a guitar and drum (or drum track) combo. Would something like the bass big muff solve it a little by having the clean through?

littlethoughts

One of the reasons I love octave fuzz. I've recorded parts that have sounded shrill in isolation but have just enough to cut through in the mix.

Grunfeld

littlethoughts said:

One of the reasons I love octave fuzz. I've recorded parts that have sounded shrill in isolation but have just enough to cut through in the mix.

Absolutely, totally agree with that. 

This is a bit spammy -- but totally relevent -- I've got a Monkey FX Velvet Vervet octave fuzz FS [end spam] 

But it's the same idea, octave to cut through and sheer bloody volume for when you have the octave off.

benmurray85

i tried using a tubescreamer type pedal in front of my big muff (a particularly bad offender) and that worked well. the TS has loads of mids and the muff has NONE so they made up for each other if you get what i mean. I've never found a fuzz i liked live. at home i love them dearly but live i don't think they work

ICBM

The solution is just to compensate with power. Use a big clean (or at least clean-ish) amp and turn the pedal up loud.

They do not work well into already-overdriven, small midrangy-sounding amps because no matter how much volume you add at the pedal, the amp just can't reproduce it properly - it will struggle to produce frequencies it can't in the attempt, and disappear in the mix.

The complete opposite of a Tube Screamer or a treble booster, basically.

But with an amp that will handle it, the result is a wall of huge-sounding fuzz. It doesn't necessarily end up that "loud", but you will hear it.

There is a reason we still need big amps.

JDE

It's not just mids, particularly when you expand further out from Muffs - it's lack of mids mixed with excess compression, not to mention all the balls about "loading shit down" when talking about pickups, impedence, volume controls and Fuzz Faces. There are ways around all of these things, but ultimately, you have to kind of "commit" to using fuzz live and while not entirely  basing everything else around it, you have to acknowledge that a few things happen to your sound when you put your foot on most fuzzes which don't happen with other pedals.

Ultimately, with regards to guitars, midrange = volume, which is why if you play a lot of high gain scooped stuff, you tend to need louder amps. Why does high gain make a difference? Because gain in essence = compression and compression is overall going to govern your voume. You do need to marry the two to make "the best" (imo) of some fuzzes.


FWIW - I rocked a Velvet Vervet for years and it was a rad fuzz. Loved it to bits and was gutted when I had to sell it. Great pedal.

Johnnyseven

Get yourself an eq pedal and boost the mids. In my experience cranking the volume on the pedal tends to hit the max headroom of an amp and makes the fuzz sound bad.

timmysoft

Try the diamond fire burst. I loved the way it sat in the mix with my band and kicking in the mid focus switch for the tighter palm mutes worked a treat. As a rhythm guitarist I often find that I actually want my tone to blend in, I use iem's so hearing myself is never a problem, but I'm more than happy to almost disappear in the live mix!

MikkiMcMurderer

Try a nice booster after the fuzz like Dave Gilmour, you get the boost clipping a bit and that adds some mid back and sounds cool

impmann

Gilmour always uses a booster with his fuzz for this reason - and as @ICBM says, big headroom amps, to get the articulation.

d8m

I always used to run an overdrive directly before my fuzz to push it that little bit harder when needed.