Need some advice on a live synth setup

WiresDreamDisasters

So we've got this track we're writing that has a bunch of synths in it. I'm using a droney synth and a couple of arpeggiated synths. The song isn't finished yet, so they are subject to change. But I'm thinking about how I'm gonna play this live, and what the quickest and easiest setup is going to be.

I have an Ableton Push2 controller and Ableton Live 10 suite. But I'm also wondering if maybe there are some hardware synths that could do this that would be much more plug-n-play than a laptop+soundcard+Push2 controller.

Here is a clip:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7csyhuj0sos4wjg/Machinations_SynthWithClicks.mp3?dl=1

I'm using a combination of Absynth, Massive, and Monark. All from Native Instruments.

Ideally I'd play the synths live, but maybe I should just trigger audio clips? What do other people do in this situation??

Fretwired

I used to play in a band with a MIDI synth pickup on my guitar that ran through a Roland unit for pads, atmospheres etc. Things are more sophisticated these days. Guys like Eivind Aarset, John McLaughlin, Vernon Reid and many others use something like a MIDI guitar to trigger soft synths like Omnisphere, Massive .. I've used MIDI guitars since the 1990s and once setup they can work well and be integrated with normal guitar tones.

wave100

Do you use a click live?

octatonic

I've only given it a quick listen so please correct me if I am wrong.
I am hearing 3 parts- a drone, a low arp and a high melodic part.
If you want to do it from one synth then you will need a synth that is 3 part multitimbral.

I would look at something like a Nord Lead 4 for this.
4 parts multitimbral, with arpeggiator, 20 voice polyphony and the usual effects.

You could theoretically do this with a lot of different products though.
Here are some of them:

Novation - Supernova (8 part; scalable up to 48 voices depending on model)
Korg - Radias (4 part; up to 24 voices)
Access Music - Virus/VirusTI/Snow (16 part/4part Snow; dynamic depends on complexity and model)
Waldorf - Q (16 part; up to 32 voices)
Waldorf - Blofeld(16 part; dynamic up to 25 voices)
Elektron - Monomachine (6 part; 6 voices)
Elektron - Octatrack (8 part; 8 voices) (you'd have to sample the parts)
Elektron - Analog 4 (4 part; 4 voices)
Futuresonus - Parva(dynamic up to 8 part; 8 voices)
Synthstrom - Deluge (dynamic unlimited parts/tracks, from internal sequencer only; dynamic - typical 48 voices)
Arturia - Origin (4 parts; up to 32 voices)
Nord - Lead/A1 (4 parts; up to 26 voices depending on model)
Nord - Modular (4 parts; dynamic up to 32 voices)
Quasimidi - Polymorph (4 parts; up to 16 voices)
Modal 002 - (12 part, 12 voices)

You'd need to check all of the synths to see how you can do keyboard splits on them too.
A lot of synths will allow 1 split (2 parts).
If you need a 3rd part you might have to use a controller keyboard for the 3rd part- you just assign that part to its own midi channel (say channel 3) and then assign the controller keyboard to send on that channel too.

There are loads of romplers that could do it too (Korg, Yamaha, Roland).
The used Roland XP50 in the classifieds would do it.

Another way to do it is just sample the lines and trigger them from any hardware sampler.

Or... Eurorack (joking/not joking).

Funkfingers

wave100 said:

Do you use a click live?

octatonic said:

sample the lines and trigger them from any hardware sampler.

These guys are suggesting that you fake it. I agree with them.

Wiggle about behind your keyboard rig while the song is happening. The audience probably will not notice any difference. 

Good enough for Pink Floyd, Rush, ZZ Top and countless others. (Also proven to work in the Classical music realm.)

WiresDreamDisasters

wave100 said:

Do you use a click live?

For this track we will yes. At least for the 1st half.

WiresDreamDisasters

Funkfingers said:

wave100 said:

Do you use a click live?

octatonic said:

sample the lines and trigger them from any hardware sampler.

These guys are suggesting that you fake it. I agree with them. 

Well I don't think that is what they're suggesting. But I don't want to do that. I don't want to be stood on stage in a progressive metal band for 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing. That is the height of pointlessness.

Strangefan

In my old band we played synth live however  anything else (as there was alot going on with no live  drums we would use a sampler and trigger that ... Which was alot easier  but most was played live  and as there was only 3 of us on stage and 6 six instruments which needed to be played we would use the sampler to switch 

octatonic

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Well I don't think that is what they're suggesting. 

Yes, I was presenting ways of doing it, rather than making a judgement about how it should be done.
There are a lot of ways of doing this- it comes down to what you want to spend and how much work you want to do to get it sounding right.

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I don't want to be stood on stage in a progressive metal band for 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing. That is the height of pointlessness.

Well, in an orchestra a lot of members are sitting around for about half the performance, but I tend to agree- I would always try to as much as possible.

A couple of questions, as this will determine the hardware choices as well:

Are you looking to improvise any of this?
As in will there be any difference from one performance to the other as to what happens from the keys?
Does your band improvise to any great degree- or are you playing as per the 'songs as recorded'?
What happens when the band slams in- are the electronics continuing in the background?
Will you be buying a cape?

WiresDreamDisasters

octatonic said:

Are you looking to improvise any of this?
As in will there be any difference from one performance to the other as to what happens from the keys?
Does your band improvise to any great degree- or are you playing as per the 'songs as recorded'?
What happens when the band slams in- are the electronics continuing in the background?
Will you be buying a cape?

No cape.
When the band 'slams in' the synths will not be present.
The main bulk of the song is not improvised. There might be the occasional note or drum fill that is. But the structure is fixed.
There may be differences in performances as a result, but very minor ones.
I'm more interested in having a range of cool sounds that I can play, rather than having something 'fixed' that I play perfectly. It's more about having a sense of atmosphere, and I don't mind if it's improvised to some extent.

octatonic

I'd probably suggest that you do it with a Nord Lead or a Virus and probably sequence one or two of the parts.

Ableton with Push is probably the simplest way to approach it, as you are doing- but it isn't really performing it, as you've highlighted.
Nor would be triggering samples and playing all 3 parts is probably more than a one person job, unless you can lay out the ARP part as a 'one finger press'.

Elektron boxes/Eurorack would be the most expressive and take you further away from the recorded idea (so the most improvised)- this would be the most fun- also the most likely to end up with a happy accident and/or train wreck (sometimes this happens concurrently).

A Nord Lead/Virus could play all the parts, you could rely on a hardware sequencer for the tricky bits (or Ableton), or for the simple bits, to give you a chance to concentrate on playing the tricky bits.

Disappointed about the cape.

PolarityMan

WiresDreamDisasters said:

So we've got this track we're writing that has a bunch of synths in it. I'm using a droney synth and a couple of arpeggiated synths. The song isn't finished yet, so they are subject to change. But I'm thinking about how I'm gonna play this live, and what the quickest and easiest setup is going to be.

I have an Ableton Push2 controller and Ableton Live 10 suite. But I'm also wondering if maybe there are some hardware synths that could do this that would be much more plug-n-play than a laptop+soundcard+Push2 controller.

Here is a clip:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7csyhuj0sos4wjg/Machinations_SynthWithClicks.mp3?dl=1

I'm using a combination of Absynth, Massive, and Monark. All from Native Instruments.

Ideally I'd play the synths live, but maybe I should just trigger audio clips? What do other people do in this situation??

Make some kind of horrendous synth patch for guitar thats what i'd do. 

WiresDreamDisasters

PolarityMan said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

So we've got this track we're writing that has a bunch of synths in it. I'm using a droney synth and a couple of arpeggiated synths. The song isn't finished yet, so they are subject to change. But I'm thinking about how I'm gonna play this live, and what the quickest and easiest setup is going to be.

I have an Ableton Push2 controller and Ableton Live 10 suite. But I'm also wondering if maybe there are some hardware synths that could do this that would be much more plug-n-play than a laptop+soundcard+Push2 controller.

Here is a clip:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7csyhuj0sos4wjg/Machinations_SynthWithClicks.mp3?dl=1

I'm using a combination of Absynth, Massive, and Monark. All from Native Instruments.

Ideally I'd play the synths live, but maybe I should just trigger audio clips? What do other people do in this situation??

Make some kind of horrendous synth patch for guitar thats what i'd do. 

I did try. Tbh the kind of thing I want to do, I really don't think a guitar will do. Even with a midi pickup.

Fretwired

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I did try. Tbh the kind of thing I want to do, I really don't think a guitar will do. Even with a midi pickup.

A peace of piss with a soft synth and a midi guitar .. :-)

WiresDreamDisasters

Fretwired said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I did try. Tbh the kind of thing I want to do, I really don't think a guitar will do. Even with a midi pickup.

A peace of piss with a soft synth and a midi guitar .. :-)

Not really. The parts I want to play are 4-5 octaves apart lol. Probably can't move my hands that quick!!

Fretwired

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Fretwired said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I did try. Tbh the kind of thing I want to do, I really don't think a guitar will do. Even with a midi pickup.

A peace of piss with a soft synth and a midi guitar .. :-)

Not really. The parts I want to play are 4-5 octaves apart lol. Probably can't move my hands that quick!!

Haven't you got a smart NI keyboard? Isn't that the way to go?

WiresDreamDisasters

Fretwired said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Fretwired said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I did try. Tbh the kind of thing I want to do, I really don't think a guitar will do. Even with a midi pickup.

A peace of piss with a soft synth and a midi guitar .. :-)

Not really. The parts I want to play are 4-5 octaves apart lol. Probably can't move my hands that quick!!

Haven't you got a smart NI keyboard? Isn't that the way to go?

I've got v1 of the Komplete Kontrol S49 keyboard. It's okay, but I'm not sure I want to take it to the practice room and leave it there. I could do I suppose... hmmmmm...

Software isn't a problem. I've got shit tons of stuff. I just kinda fancy something hardware-y so I can have a more intuitive songwritery vibe going on with it.

octatonic

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Software isn't a problem. I've got shit tons of stuff. I just kinda fancy something hardware-y so I can have a more intuitive songwritery vibe going on with it.

That is why I hardly use synth plugins anymore - as well as being able to reach out and turn knobs as part of a performance without having to map anything.
And lower latency.
And less fiddling about generally with computers.

WiresDreamDisasters

I've got a Minibrute 2S incoming. Should arrive tomorrow.

octatonic

Congrats.
Get some extra patch cables while you are at it.

WiresDreamDisasters

octatonic said:

Congrats.
Get some extra patch cables while you are at it.

Got some at the FX studio I can borrow for a bit.

We've also got a modular there that no-one is using right now. I might take the S2 into the studio and see how they can play together.

I also need to get a keyboard to connect up to it.